Ethics of red Players, are there any?

No, i am not gonna complain about the existence of pk's.

I am here to plead to the red community to think about some kind of ethics. Especially mentioned there the guilds
RUS, BOSS and APEX. (Crimson Sea)

While a lot of PK's seem to be more or less fair while killing miners, members of the above mentioned guilds have a great part in making me loose the fun. How so ? Those fair guys, kill us miners, take the ore which is the only valuable stuff most miners have anyway, res the said miner and dont come back for at least 1 hour. This way i am able to dig
again right after the res and i have a chance to get a load of ore for myself before the next pk shows up.

Most, if not every, member of RUS, BOSS, APEX loot blank. period. we get killed, have to run to the next res shrine, got home get some stuff, run to the mine again and with extreme bad luck 5 mins later the next BOSS turns up.

Please think about that, the more often i have to res, run, get fresh stuff etc pp the faster i am loosing the fun mining.
No more or less miners means less ppl to kill for ore until noone is willing to mine at all. or miners get bodyguards and fight back and ofc kill you.

So i am here to plead to those guild, to the red community, to every pk out there. Dont take away our tools of trade and if you can give a res. That way your prey will last a lot longer !

Cheers
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Comments

  • edited February 8
    +1
    Full Ack.. I don't think most players have a problem with getting killed and looted (at least the valuables)
    But what really sucks is gettling clean'd, running a few minutes to the next ress shrine, re-equip, get a new horse, get a new saddle bag (if you can afford a new one... not all new players have enough copper to reequip) and TRY to mine/ chop/ collect again... and if you are "lucky" the next minute the game repeats. Sorry what do you expect? There are better and more pleasant ways to spend time... Yes sure, get some fighting skills or hire some protection... Sorry no. Are PKs forced to get some working skills ? And some players are casual players that can't afford 5g per mining session for some protection. (BTW what about that... if a PK is killed his char is "locked away" for a certain amount of time...) That plain and simple sucks to be ganked and clean'd over and over again.
    I met a FEW nice PKs (Solomon Kane) that killed me (more than one time), looted my ore (and my weapon lol) and then ressed me and my horse. Not shittalk, no bad blood.. just bad luck.. It was a thrill and I am not pissed..That is part of the game and intended. No hard feelings about that.
    I guess if more PKs would behave like this, there would be much more fun in the game..
    But if the game develops further that way I guess everyone will soon have a griefer PK to piss some other players off.. and then think how fast CS will be FORCED to do something.. So I hope that some PKs will think about being PKs and not Griefers...
  • I'm totally with you.

    I don't understand what goes through the head of this kind of people.
    Sometimes I think .... for sure "nothing".

    I have no miner but a tamer and we are forced to go to wilderness to gain our skills faster. And if this skills are not hard enough to gain there are PKs out there that kill naked tamers and "loot them blank".

    So that means they loot all stuff that they will throw away (buyable stuff from NPCs like crooks) and just loot us clean to harass us.

    Whats wrong with you? ^^
  • They kill miners because it's an easy kill...when they meet a grp of blue they die easy...they vent their frustration on the poor miners lolll

    ...skill manifestation for ward so u can recall ;)
  • In short - no honor
  • You can also try talking to red in chat, ask nicely to be rezzed and to have non valuables. Most except RUS will help you back up. If it's RUS I am afraid you are just out of luck, they just want to see the world burn.
  • hm... dunno, im all time ress miners and don't kill horse if it without saddles.
  • I'm not a PK.
    I think most PKs are pretty lame.

    That said, if you have a dozen PKs running through their routes they likely have no idea how many times you've been hit in an evening and are unaware that you were just murdered 10 minutes ago.

    Really, getting killed every 5 minutes is on you.
    Just. Don't. Go. There. Anymore.

    Work on skills or gathering in guarded zones - or where the PK actions is less intense.
    Choose a PvE server.
    Change your playstyle to succeed. Adapt.

    Again, I don't PK - don't care for it - but they can be beat.
  • GorfGorf Czechia
    I have my own pk and I have never killed miner even though I think miner shoul be killed. I just dont understand why some pks do this so often and some of them even kill only miners. My dxplanation is that because they are terrible players.

    However, miners should be killed, because it is good for economy.

    I do pk with manners. I loot only those who have a chance to fight back and dry loot all pks and people from guilds I know to have a pk.

    Problem is most pks started their pk char for profit only some do it for fun. My pk end up loosing much more than earn, but Im fine with this.

    Anyway, what we did was going to protect our two miners. We ended up having nice pvp fight with other pks. They obviously came with double of our numbers since they had scout, but we had a good fight and our miners ported out with ore.
    You just need to organize yourself and be able to share your profit with others to ddal with these cheap pks who are parked in mines and login just to kill a miner.
  • Gorf said:


    However, miners should be killed, because it is good for economy.

    Aehm lol .. sorry but ... what? xD
  • again, i don't mind pk's that much. if it gets out of hand i go elsewhere or just stop doing stuff at all.

    This thread is intended to plead to pks to at least leave the mining pick, (the torch), the crook or the hatchet with our bodies. giving a res is also nice.
    Honorable mentions to Eximo and some others who DO this w/o even being asked and have a short chat as well.

    Looting blank is simple nonsense since none of those used tools can be sold anyway.
  • edited February 8
    You can't "expect" any predetermined player behavior in game play. Each player sets his own rules- as the game allows. And its the games allowance that let ALL the behaviors escalate to its fullest potential.

    Example: if the game allowed you to turn player into a giant weiner... how many giant weiners would you see vs opting out to be polite for those who may be offended?
  • ragonrokragonrok Eldeir
    edited February 8
    If you walk into the wilderness and you created a build that is helpless it's not the reds to blame for your death
  • As an officer of Apex, I can tell you this.

    1. Unless you are in a guild that has a non agression pact with us, you have no protection from our reds.

    2. If you want protection you have to pay for it.

    3. If you get killed by any Apex member and ask politely for a rez, you are generally given one, most of the time we rez people anyway, but sorry you will be cleaned out, that's PK for you, some of us will leave you a pick or axe.

    4. If you swear or by any means bad mouth us after dying, your chances of being revived are slim to none.

    5. Reds only means of farming gold, besides killing mobs, is killing miners and other players they find.

    6. Don't complain about guilds on the forum, it just makes you look bad and makes us look like a guild full of satanic demons.

    Point is, if your not in a guild, join one, if you have no friends to play with, make some.

    They even added a new manifestation skill miners can get that warns you of reds comming into the mine or where you place it.

    If you have complaints, join the discord and speak with us.
  • edited February 8
    If you dont want your game dicktated by Reds, you can play on the Community PVE server. (its like Trammel ) :)
  • It’s a pvp area. That’s why the good stuff to mine is there. Get hiding and stealth on your miner and hide. Going out there just with a pick and expecting not to get killed is ridiculous.
  • Zargan said:

    Gorf said:


    However, miners should be killed, because it is good for economy.

    Aehm lol .. sorry but ... what? xD
    What he's saying is because of the risk of getting Gold ore up to Obsidian ore is high it drives the prices up, which is good for the miners.

    Those miners who get paid buy stuff from other players, which is good for the economy. Being a miner myself I don't mind it.
  • Zargan said:

    Gorf said:


    However, miners should be killed, because it is good for economy.

    Aehm lol .. sorry but ... what? xD
    What he's saying is because of the risk of getting Gold ore up to Obsidian ore is high it drives the prices up, which is good for the miners.

    Those miners who get paid buy stuff from other players, which is good for the economy. Being a miner myself I don't mind it.
    Yeah, this is an idiotic economic theory for several reasons:

    1: The ore that is stolen doesn't cease to exist - the same amount of ore is being dumped into the economy.

    2: Telling a miner that he's making money by having a large percentage of his ore stolen is nonsense. If you take 1/2 my ore then I'd have to get at least 2x the price for the ore I get back home to break even, not including the cost of equipment lost. Time lost factored in and a miner would have to get probably 4X the amount of money for his ore than he would without PKs to break even.

    3: High prices are hard on new players trying to upgrade gear.

    4: People often refuse to buy good gear because it will just be taken away from them. You have less customers for high end goods.

    If you'd like to see how this actually works in the real world feel free to visit any high crime areas and let me know what you observe about economic activity in those places. Spoiler alert: It ain't good.

    I don't see any evidence that PKs contribute to the economy in a positive way.


  • Zargan said:

    Gorf said:


    However, miners should be killed, because it is good for economy.

    Aehm lol .. sorry but ... what? xD
    It is a nonsense theory that PKs like to pull out every here and again.
    They like to pretend that they're contributing to a healthy world.

    I'm not anti PK, really, but I am anti-stupid-excuses-for-in-game-aggression.

    The only excuse a PK needs is: I like it.
    Don't try to BS us with nonsense.
  • Correcting my previous post I was killed today by RUS while taming and I got a rezz plus most of my stuff back after asking nicely.

    As I said the key is show some respect and ask nicely and you will almost always be rezzed.
  • Ok lets break this about not helping make high grade ores worth something.

    If there was no risk mining gold - Obsidian, then the price of Gold - Obsidian would be equal to the price of Iron and Copper.

    There are plenty of Gold - Obsidian mines and plenty of nodes providing them.

    Because there is a risk of loosing these ores, the prices need to be much higher, you can actually also get gold from some guarded mines, it is rare, but you can, which is why Gold is cheaper than Obsidian and Cobalt.

    So yes PK's do help miners make more money.

    I don't PK a lot, because I'm usually too busy mining or doing awakenings e.c.t, I've probably been killed 4 or 5 times whilst mining and have mined well over 10,000 ores Cobalt and Obsidian, I lost maybe 2000 of those to PK's, I don't consider that a lot.

    The times I have died, were in smaller mines, or I was alt tabbed watching a movie or I went to pee.

    You have plenty of time to quickly hearthstone if your camera is facing the right way to see the furthest point of entry.

    PK's are good for the game, it makes mining a challenge, if it was not a challenge, then everything would be dirt cheap.

    Now onto the next point about new players not being able to afford decent stuff.

    Complete rubbish.

    Personally I sell Obsidian weapons 5-20s, for basic +15 acc 50% ish damage, anything over 20 acc and 80% damage, sure 30-60s.

    Full Obsidian plate sets are 30s for +2 defense. +1 are 15s.

    You can farm the sewers or graveyards or bandits and make a gold in an hour or so, how is that hard ?

    Stop moaning because a red killed you, this game is full pvp and corpse looting, that's the point of the game.

    So from that, lets now travel to real life like someone said.

    This is a game, at least you can revive yourself and try again, in real life, you die, you die, so of course less people to sell stolen goods = bad area to live in, cause everyones dead.

    But even if you don't die and you get robbed for $100 cash and your phone, or your car, you can still get all that back .. eventually .. if your not lazy.

    This whole thread is basically snowflakes who can't handle dying to a red person and don't know what the word challenge means, they want everything handed to them on a plate, like some entitled little millennial child.
  • edited February 8
    The thread is not about complaining about PKs, the thread is abbout griefers, cleanlooters and resskillers.
    PKs are part of the game, there is no question. Its like mobbing in schools... it's fun as long as you are on the other side... at least if you are an a....e, but if it gets too much ....
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    Drustin said:

    So yes PK's do help miners make more money.

    Repeating it doesn't make it any more true.
    PK's do help Pkers make more money.

  • Sacha said:

    Drustin said:

    So yes PK's do help miners make more money.

    Repeating it doesn't make it any more true.
    PK's do help Pkers make more money.

    Exactly why they should add some sort of bounty hunter system, add the tracking skill with some sort of trap skill.

    I'm sure there are a handful full of people that would love to hunt reds.
  • Drustin said:

    Because there is a risk of loosing these ores, the prices need to be much higher, you can actually also get gold from some guarded mines, it is rare, but you can, which is why Gold is cheaper than Obsidian and Cobalt.

    Economies are driven by supply and demand.
    If the PKs take the ore and put it back into the economy then no ore is lost.
    The same amount of ore is still impacting the market.

    On the other hand, people are less likely to take high end equipment into the wilds thus reducing the demand for that equipment. I rarely saw colored armor in UO until Trammel, then suddenly there was a demand for it.
    Drustin said:


    So yes PK's do help miners make more money.

    By dry looting them?

    You've not shown where the price of ore being high (due to PKs) is high enough to make up for the ore the miners lose & and the equipment & the time lost. Ore would have to be 5x (or more, I'd guess) the price to make up for the difference.
    Drustin said:

    I don't PK a lot, because I'm usually too busy mining or doing awakenings e.c.t, I've probably been killed 4 or 5 times whilst mining and have mined well over 10,000 ores Cobalt and Obsidian, I lost maybe 2000 of those to PK's, I don't consider that a lot.

    If you haven't lost a lot then it wouldn't impact the price of ore.
    Your excuse of "it helps the economy" contradicts your excuse "not much is actually lost".
    Pick a lie already.
    Drustin said:

    PK's are good for the game, it makes mining a challenge, if it was not a challenge, then everything would be dirt cheap.

    So things aren't currently dirt cheap?
    Drustin said:

    Personally I sell Obsidian weapons 5-20s, for basic +15 acc 50% ish damage, anything over 20 acc and 80% damage, sure 30-60s.

    So you make the argument that PKs stop stuff from being dirt cheap, and then you make the argument that noobs should be able to afford stuff, because...and get this... it is dirt cheap.

    This is the second time you've contradicted yourself.
    You're throwing out PK propaganda nonsense that defeats itself.
    Drustin said:

    This whole thread is basically snowflakes who can't handle dying to a red person and don't know what the word challenge means, they want everything handed to them on a plate, like some entitled little millennial child.

    A snowflake is someone who has to manufacture BS reasons for being a PK.
    Just own that you like to kill people for fun instead of inventing contradictory reasons for your behavior.

    The only excuse you need: I like it.


  • As a well known miner killer, let's hear the story from my side.
    1. Red players are outcasts, so expecting any kind of ethics from them is silly.
    2. If a red resses you after the kill, it is out of mercy, not good manners.
    3. Most of the time people log off their main character at the mine entrance and switch immediately when they see a PK. So ressing miners multiplies the risk that I will get killed. As resurrection costs 50+ mana, why should I do that just for your 'ethics'?
    4. When I die I have to walk as a spirit like 15 minutes to get a ress and have to use hearthstone to re-gear and finally run all the way back to reach where I died. When you die you can run to the nearest shrine (and I believe there are ress shrines for blues near each mine), hearthstone town and use your fancy rune/portal to get back to the exact spot. May be you lose 5 minutes. Well live (or die) with that.
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    Eingin is right. If players want to change this, they have to appeal to game system mechanics (penalties, bounties, stat loss, etc), not to reds' ethics, which they could not have any (i.e. roleplaying an evil badass or being an asshole in RL)
  • SinSin Sweden
    edited February 9
    Have been killed a fair amount of times by reds and they always res when I ask and sure they cleanloot but Im a mage so I get that and have no problem with it but when they show up 4-5 and kill everyone thats solo and when 4 of some other guild comes running wanting a fight they run into guard zone??
  • There are just as many shitty blues that I encounter that scream racial and homophobic obscenities when they get PK'd. I would say 90% exhibit this behaviour so I don't res them
  • SinSin Sweden
    Wormius said:

    There are just as many shitty blues that I encounter that scream racial and homophobic obscenities when they get PK'd. I would say 90% exhibit this behaviour so I don't res them

    Well when they have been farming for 30-40 min and 3 reds come and kill them in 2 sec I can understand If some get upset but homophobic and racial crap is a good reason not to res them after.
  • Engin said:

    As a well known miner killer, let's hear the story from my side.

    4. When I die I have to walk as a spirit like 15 minutes to get a ress and have to use hearthstone to re-gear and finally run all the way back

    And so basically miners are just killing you all the time? That's sad.
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