Casting without Ingredients "Eschew Materials"

As a caster as much as I like D&D styled magic I dislike
the idea of being a walking pharmacy so I always leave
room for this feat.

Is there anything planed on the topic of skipping ingredients
in LoA?

Comments

  • If you mean reagents for casting, I doubt it. They are consumables, that ensure that the power of magic comes with some costs... it’s a system that makes sense.
  • Nefarious said:

    If you mean reagents for casting, I doubt it. They are consumables, that ensure that the power of magic comes with some costs... it’s a system that makes sense.

    Yes reagents, sorry for using the wrong term, but I can't imagine that the cost of the reagents will be much of an issue even if there is only a supply/demand player run market for the reagents it's likely that bots will pluck reagents by the ton.
    So imo it's more about flavour than anything else. Like giving a warrior a sword that's only damaged by the most corrosive slimes and hardest enemies like adamantine golems. Or an arcane archer that summons
    his own magical arrows.
  • I don’t think they’ll do that primarily due to the nature of a player run economy.

    Carpenters make arrows. Blacksmiths make swords. Gatherers will go out and find reagents. It’s a big cycle that would require a huge change in game mechanics, along with compensation mechanics to make up the loss to professions.

    I think the reagents are pretty fair though. They are relatively inexpensive and stockpiling isn’t hard to do.
  • MntrMntr mentorq@gmail.com
    Hcinrich said:

    As a caster as much as I like D&D styled magic I dislike
    the idea of being a walking pharmacy so I always leave
    room for this feat.

    Is there anything planed on the topic of skipping ingredients
    in LoA?

    I like this way of thinking, but I assume that it's just too much of an issue for Devs to create something like that. But anyway, you have my vote ;)
  • Thank you Mntr.

    From the possible things you can learn an additional combat skill line would probably be the best way to implement it right now though still far from perfect:
    It could go something like this:
    Arcane Casting:
    lvl 01 - no reagents required for 1st circle spells
    lvl 05 - 2nd circle spells
    lvl 10 - 3rd circle spells
    lvl 15 - 4th circle spells
    lvl 20 - 5th circle spells
    lvl 25 - 6th circle spells
    lvl 35 - 7th circle spells
    lvl 50 - 8th circle spells

    I have no idea for further boni up to lvl 100 right now but it could contain other meta magic.

    Since I already started talking meta magic I might aswell post a 2nd combat skill line draft:
    Meta Magic:
    lvl010 - Quicken 1st CL Spells (quicker casting)
    lvl020 - Quicken 2nd CL Spells
    lvl030 - Quicken 3rd CL Spells
    lvl040 - Quicken 4th CL Spells
    lvl050 - Quicken 5th CL Spells
    Elemental Spells (modes to change the nature of a spell - acid balls, fire bolts, walls of ice)
    lvl060 - Quicken 6th CL Spells
    lvl070 - Quicken 7th CL Spells
    Reach Spell (mode that increases the range of spells, increased mana consumption)
    lvl080 - Quicken 8th CL Spells
    lvl090 - Silent Spells (cast spells without verbal component - e.g. while silenced)
    lvl100 - Still Spell (cast spell without somatic component - e.g. while paralyzed)
  • edited November 9
    With a 600 point skill cap you’re making a reach. That would leave no room for supplementary skills or dependencies.

    Remember, the point of reagents is because magic needs a tax. It has to cost something for all that power. Just being able to freely spam AOE without consequence would be ridiculous. I suppose if magic was nerfed badly, then no reagents makes sense.
  • I think you're overestimating the power of this tax the biggest but still small downside of such things is usually that consumables take up space in your inventory it would be nice to see an mmorpg economy that doesn't go down a strongly inflationary route that keeps it's populance starved for money making every decision to use items meaningful but I've never witnessed or even heard of that.

    Skill cap is an issue that's why I think that a skill line is a suboptimal choice for that kind of character customization and there should be more such "feats" that allow for different gameplay like one for unarmed fighting, or becoming an undead these kind of customizations are very important in an rpg.

    If a skill line has next to no use if it isn't maxed out like dipping into Manifestation and Channeling to get some Paladin like healing abilities then character customization in this game is seriously lacking.
  • I respectfully disagree. I think hybridization works well in the game. The limits keep it from being OP. Someone in heavy (plate) armor, who does max damage with a sword, should not cast as well as a pure caster. They should also have reduced mana regeneration. That’s pretty much how it works. It certainly did not stop many PKs from running around on halbert mages.

    What you’re asking for is a completely different game. We all know how that worked out for WoW overvthe years. BFA = lowest sub numbers ever. They don’t release sub numbers anymore, but I know a dev there.

    Character customization is, if anything, to powerful. You can be a tamer mage with a wyvern. You can build a halbert mage, caster rogue, Paladin, archer mage, and the list goes on....

    I see what you’re saying, but the issue with bag space is negligible at best. I had no issues going out with tons of reagents and farming gold. Coin weighed me down long before I ran out of reagents. I have no issue with this, because it requires you to take a break and go bank some of that heavy money.
  • I can't say anything about WoW since I only tried it offline for a bit way back and didn't get hooked.

    If hybridization works that's good. I agree a caster in armor should have downsides. Customization shouldn't be about power a caster should not be more powerful than a fighter. customization is about having many different ways to play your character instead of a few cookie cutter builds who invalidate everthing that deviates from them.

    "Just being able to freely spam AOE without consequence would be ridiculous."
    Yes, but that will be the reality anyway for players who acquired enough money/reagents so if that's the case magic will have to be nerfed.

    Since you say that you had no issue with having enough inventory space and gold for reagents they don't work as a taxation for casting. I also don't think that gatherers would loose out too hard if some people choose to eschew reagents for casting also these materials can still have other uses for crafting (potion making, enchanting).
  • edited November 10
    Why stop at removing mage casting resources? While we are at it, let's remove arrows as a resource needed by archers. Heck, why need bandages to heal? I can go on and on.... the game is resource based. If reagents are currently just a small annoyance with no real impact as you put it, then perhaps Citadel should increase their costs or make them harder to come by? This way when you die, you really feel the sting.


    Perhaps there can be a compromise to get people to specialize more. The more points you commit to magery and it's sub skills (meditation, channeling, etc.) the less reagents you need to cast certain spells. You had the right idea with your magery circle list of spells but took it too far by completely removing the resources. Same with arrows for archers. You are now a master of numerous skills in your profession and know how to use your abilities with less resources. It would make sense.


  • When I say no problem, I mean not dissatisfying. Many of us are old UO players and understand this type of system. Magic isn’t free... it comes from somewhere. Using reagents just makes since.

    It’s balanced really. If you’re out making money, you burn reagents. When you need to bank, it’s likely you need reagents. You’re forced to spend so me of what you made. Seems fair, since you have lower risk of death and less armor damage than a warrior. Archery is the same way. You can’t shoot nothing, so you use arrows. The up keep of buying/crafting arrows is the price you pay for the luxury of ranged combat and less armor damage. These things balance the game and player expenses.

    If mages could free cast, and archers could shoot without arrows, why would anyone play a melee? It’s the costs (armor damage, reagents, arrows) that seperate them but keep them on a level playing field. The cost of being ranged is what makes things fair across the board.

    You are basically just asking them to scrap the game mechanics and start over.
  • Because it's rather narrow minded for a fantasy game. The balancing comes from having to invest in other skills an Arcane Archer might not need to procure arrows, he just summons them as needed but he needs to learn magic and thus loose out on some of the other skills, he won't be able to produce and sell arrows, he won't have as many skill points to spare for rogue like abilities to complement his build like stealth and trickery (dealing with locks and traps) and wearing light armor makes any magic he uses less effective. I don't think a ressource based game is much fun if it's too restrictive.
  • I don’t see it happening. Release is upon us and I can’t see anyone wanting to blast their game mechanics while they’re already fine tuning updates and are being pressured by the community to add more content to the maps.
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    I also dislike mandatory reagents for all magic. I prefer only rare reagents for some special, high level spells.
    The good news is you can mod it and make your own server with the rules you like :)
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