Crafting is a waste of time.

I can spend an hour or two gathering resources, and when I churn them in for processing into boards or bars or what have you, I have to watch at least half of them disappear to the ethers for god knows what reason. To make matters worse, actually using what boards I could make to craft something as simple as a T2 bow results in way too many materials wasted because of RNG. I can't make nicer weapons for noobs if I risk a stroke for it.

Developers, I understand you want to make an interesting game, but RNG-based crafting that eats your resources and often leaves you with nothing is not fun at all. Even reducing the failure rate dramatically is unacceptable as long as one's time and efforts are at the mercy of RNG. I don't care if you make gathering or crafting take longer to compensate for the lack of RNG. Just make it more consistent and reliable. And fun.

Thanks.
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Comments

  • TalonTalon Pacific Coast
    The problem with the system right now is it does not honor the players time. Players will feel let down and this will cause problems with keeping a stable base. At this time due to failure and raw mat collections rates it really does feel like a waste of time.

    The devs said crafting should be viable and alive in this game so far it does not come close to farming mobs on a per hours basis.
  • ValianceValiance United Kingdom
    This is turning into a simple PvP game, Mages..Mages..Mages. Getting old fast.
  • Talon said:

    The problem with the system right now is it does not honor the players time. Players will feel let down and this will cause problems with keeping a stable base. At this time due to failure and raw mat collections rates it really does feel like a waste of time.

    The devs said crafting should be viable and alive in this game so far it does not come close to farming mobs on a per hours basis.

    Is that so? if everyone then hunt monsters and noone craft, wouldnt that mean if just one picked up a hammer and went to the anvil the demand would be INSANE and he could charge whatever he wanted for his goods, as noone has weapons but all have plenty money?

    It takes an effort to get GM i assume, and those who do, will be able to make weapons in a matter of minutres charging you the amout it takes you 30 min to farm? well.. in theory :)

    I found Lumberjacking and carpenter to be fine - i admit that the first 20-30 skills felt HORRIBLE... but after that i had more lumber than i could chew.

    I must admit though, that the way lumberjack works vs. gathering cotton is much better. Gathering cottons to gain in Fabrication is less fun than getting kick in the nuts.
  • TalonTalon Pacific Coast
    edited February 2018
    @morph


    Lumber jacking is poor since it takes the same time to harvest normal wood at gm as it does with a person who has lower skills such as 70. Durable and both blights gather the same at 80 as a GM. They cost benifits of gm'ng a lumber jack due to time loss is crap.

    Carpentry skill is crap also since you are harvesting wood as a lumberjack and that takes time pulling together 1000 chopped wood. Which only gets you 2 shots at making a loom and if you fail then you loose all the mats needed to make the item and a huge ass amount of time that you spent gathering it.

    So when you do a cost benefit analysis the person taking a sword and shield and bashing everything is having way more fun and making money faster than the putz who takes up crafting.

    Yes it takes effort to get gm crafting but they sucked all the fun out of getting there and actually crafting.

    Crafting should be fun not some bang your face off a desk in utter boredom process.

    Go take 1100 chopped wood and make boards, I've done it enough now I know I can leave the computer and make a meal for me and my wife, east eat and load a dishwasher before coming back. That's freaking ridiculous, with summer coming i bet i can BBQ a steak and eat it before the boards are done.
  • TalonTalon Pacific Coast
    Valiance said:

    This is turning into a simple PvP game, Mages..Mages..Mages. Getting old fast.

    yep i second that. later maybe it will pvp and rogue is on top same old crap wheel different class.
  • TalonTalon Pacific Coast
    edited February 2018
    @Valiance
    yep i second that. later maybe it will pvp and rogue is on top same old crap wheel different class.
  • TalonTalon Pacific Coast
    edited February 2018
    Morph said:

    Talon said:

    The problem with the system right now is it does not honor the players time. Players will feel let down and this will cause problems with keeping a stable base. At this time due to failure and raw mat collections rates it really does feel like a waste of time.

    The devs said crafting should be viable and alive in this game so far it does not come close to farming mobs on a per hours basis.

    Is that so? if everyone then hunt monsters and noone craft, wouldnt that mean if just one picked up a hammer and went to the anvil the demand would be INSANE and he could charge whatever he wanted for his goods, as noone has weapons but all have plenty money?

    It takes an effort to get GM i assume, and those who do, will be able to make weapons in a matter of minutres charging you the amout it takes you 30 min to farm? well.. in theory :)

    I found Lumberjacking and carpenter to be fine - i admit that the first 20-30 skills felt HORRIBLE... but after that i had more lumber than i could chew.

    I must admit though, that the way lumberjack works vs. gathering cotton is much better. Gathering cottons to gain in Fabrication is less fun than getting kick in the nuts.
    You cannot say Lumberjacking and carpentry is fine, both are crap right now and time wasting sinks. In your scenario the one picking up the hammer is a putz because thier negatives involved in crafting far outweigh the amount of money they will make.

    If as a carpenter I go to make a loom then I waste my time: first off by having to gather 1000 chopped wood so I can get two chances to to try and craft a loom. If I fail I loose all those mats. At that point it means all the time spent gathering wood as a GM lumberjack is wasted. As a GM lumberjack I collect wood at the same rate as a 70 lumberjack with no fails. It takes the same amount of time to collect the same amount of 1000 chopped wood. That's truly a fail in the gather mechanic since there is no payoff to becoming a GM lumberjack and no efficiency in gathering happened.

    Now go take those 1000 chopped wood and turn them into boards. I have done it enough times now to know I can step away from my computer and actually make a home cooked meal for me and my wife, eat it and put the dishes in the dishwasher. I am betting with summer coming if there is no changes to the system i will be able to BBQ a steak and eat it before I have to come back to my character and check if it made all the boards.

    Crafting should be fun not some tedious time wasting process we have now which makes you want to bang your face off a desk.

    This current system has sucked all the fun out of crafting and the benefits are outweighed by time loss which does not seem to end.

    the person going out bashing monsters is having more fun in an hour than me the putz of a crafter who is sitting infront of my screen waiting for the f'cking wooden boards to be completed so I can spend two minutes loosing my mats in failed attempts. And then go spend a pile of wasted time collecting mats again.

    This does not honor players time and will lead to people actually buying stuff with real money in the grey and black market because they do not have time to waste on a crappy crafting system.
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    I'm with Morph. Make it easier and noone will value the crafting achievements.
  • ValianceValiance United Kingdom
    Well Sacha, I only half agree with you, why make Mage easier and not the rest of the game ?

    The glass is always half full.
  • I don't think the failure rate is such an issue. For me, the biggest problem of investing in crafting right now is that it is sooooo easy to drop the same items you can craft with a high skill worker by just killing mobs. Maybe the items crafted by workers could be slightly better than the dropped ones, like exceptional quality items. For now it doesn't seems worth to raise a worker, money wise, since it is so easy to drop the items just by training a pve character.
  • edited February 2018
    crafting is worthless, unless:
    -you want to support guildmates
    -you can craft items with +30-50%durability
    -you can name GM items

    2 years ago crafting was much better!! lol
  • It’s an investment. You have to put in time to train it for it to pay off. Not complicated.
  • NefariousNefarious Community Server Admin and Subreddit Mod
    The biggest problem I see, is on fails you should lose “some” materials, not ALL. And massive fails with GM in a craft? Comon! Grand Master crafters should RARELY fail.
  • My Opinion:
    Monterloot-Weapons/Armour has to be damaged! ... Hey, it´s used!

    And Weapons/Armour has to become damaged faster.
    For example 100 Hits with a Weapon per used iron-ignot in the weapon, 200 Hits per used steel-ignot and so on.

    And something like that for all crafting-skills.
    Then we have a chance of a functionally economy.
  • tiered stuffs must be out of the game. it's clear that we need colored materials for better crafting experiencee.

  • edited February 2018
    @Nefarious +1

    @DaFlake exactly

    @tolgav depends on how CS wants crafting to "work" ;)
  • i found carpentry a lot easier than smithing - so carpentry is probably ok were it is just need more recipes as it boring at 80+ and you can not decorate the house much

    Smithy I found horrible - gave it up until i got my carpentry up - now back at it and i would rather chew broken glass.

    Fabrication is just ouch! Farming hides so slow for base mats. Cotton not so hard.

    cooking - well lets just leave that as its almost non existent

    Alchemy + inscription - they equal as leveling magery - just cost and regents so very easy to level they need a rework so boring

    fishing - skill level on fish takes forever if there is one skill rock bottom to get increases its fishing
  • TalonTalon Pacific Coast
    They have taken the fun out of crafting. i.e. take a 1000 chopped wood and go turn it into boards. I can take a novel to the washroom and read it while having a relaxing poop, finish my business and come back before the boards are finished. The mechanics waste so much of the players times its not funny. An hour gathering mats and crafting is just a mind numbing loos.

    The adventurer fighting mobs has a far more enjoyable and dynamic experience over an hours than us fools who took crafting.

    This protestant grind ethic/process of grind now and it pays of later is sham in the games current state.

    There's no fun in spending 15-30 minutes crafting boards so you can make something that you will waste in fails at a 90- GM level. This is time theft which punishes the crafter.

    Definitely took the fun in crafting and drowned it in a bath tub.
  • RelsanctRelsanct Costa Rica
    Player created items, especially gm created items should offer some advantage over normal weapons and armor other than durability. Even if it it just a very small boost in damage or protection it would give players reason to purchase crafted items.
  • Relsanct said:

    Player created items, especially gm created items should offer some advantage over normal weapons and armor other than durability. Even if it it just a very small boost in damage or protection it would give players reason to purchase crafted items.

    Exactly.
  • OmmamarOmmamar United States
    Relsanct said:

    Player created items, especially gm created items should offer some advantage over normal weapons and armor other than durability. Even if it it just a very small boost in damage or protection it would give players reason to purchase crafted items.

    I think the game needs to decide if it wants a drop economy or a crafting economy. You can have a hybrid where the drops feed the player crafting but if you can get the same or better gear from farming mobs or players then that is what will happen. Particularly when your crafting consists of clicking on something or pushing a button. There needs to be starter items for adventurers up to say tier 2 but then if you make everything crafted by players with the adventurers providing the base material it will make the crafting grind feel more worthwhile. The problem I have seen is players who enjoy crafting is a much smaller population then the people who like to fight mobs or other players. One of the solutions would be to allow a crafter to support several people with a reasonable investment. I think this is a big problem with the current system where the return isn't there for time invested in advancing the craft skills. Then once you are able to make something usable it is likely that a player won't be interested as they will have found something as good or better.
  • Miphon_CSMiphon_CS Citadel Team Administrator
    We're going with a 100% craft economy.

    The availability of dropped items and limits within the scale of playermade craftables are temporary. Expect more soon and please keep your feedback coming.
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    Valiance said:

    Well Sacha, I only half agree with you, why make Mage easier and not the rest of the game ?

    Mage should be the hardest class of all, I've never said the contrary.

  • Miphon_CS said:

    We're going with a 100% craft economy.

    The availability of dropped items and limits within the scale of playermade craftables are temporary. Expect more soon and please keep your feedback coming.

    Great to hear!
  • edited February 2018
    One way I think dropped items and crafting could work well together is to also have weapon and armor upgrade slots. Make it so that only those of the correct profession can place upgrades into those items. Example place lava stone which gives some fire resist into some plate armor. Would need a blacksmith. These upgrades could be minor but effective. This could work well for different gathering skills as well. Making these special upgrades only drop from those skills and it would be something rare that could be worth a lot. This would give crafters another service to sell. Idk if something like this could fit into the game but it would make crafting and gear optimization a little bit more interesting.
  • OmmamarOmmamar United States
    Miphon_CS said:

    We're going with a 100% craft economy.

    The availability of dropped items and limits within the scale of playermade craftables are temporary. Expect more soon and please keep your feedback coming.

    Cool! So will starter/training equipment still be there? I hope you keep this with the caveat that it would only advance your skill so far to drive the demand for crafted items.
  • Ah, btw: Pls make, that all weapons can weared by all Chars, even those with no Skill to use it! Some Chars like to wear them as Deko (My Smith would like to wear a big Hammer :-P)
  • Miphon_CS said:

    We're going with a 100% craft economy.

    The availability of dropped items and limits within the scale of playermade craftables are temporary. Expect more soon and please keep your feedback coming.

    If this is the case, player crafted item names should be colorized ASAP. If you're looking to buy items from player vendors, and you don't know all of the higher end gear names, you easily miss good items in the sea of white item names. Meanwhile, the loot based items appear with rarity based colors. It's an easy to overlook, yet, extremely powerful UI problem right now.
  • edited February 2018
    Miphon_CS said:

    We're going with a 100% craft economy.

    The availability of dropped items and limits within the scale of playermade craftables are temporary. Expect more soon and please keep your feedback coming.

    @Miphon_CS Sounds like no dropped items anymore ..once crafting is in place ?!
    What is the purpose of going outside of towns and doing PvE ,then?
  • HavoKing said:

    Miphon_CS said:

    We're going with a 100% craft economy.

    The availability of dropped items and limits within the scale of playermade craftables are temporary. Expect more soon and please keep your feedback coming.

    @Miphon_CS Sounds like no dropped items anymore ..once crafting is in place ?!
    What is the purpose of going outside of towns and doing PvE ,then?
    Raise skill? Gain gold? Gain skillbooks, scrolls, basically everything else? Also, he didn't say there will be absolutely NO drops from monsters, just a lower rate of it.
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