Soft Guard Zones

MograMogra US
edited November 26 in General Discussion
Make the original Pre-Steam Guarded Zones be “Soft Guard Zones”. By that, I don’t mean restrict player aggression or criminal activity. Instead, make the stone walls that originally separated “Guarded” and “Wilderness” be defended by actual guards, and add more guard towers along these walls. The guards won’t engage the Outcasts unless they get within aggro range, but they will alert the local Innocents that Outcasts have been spotted and where. The guards in guard towers should be killable.

Then, add guard towers near points of interests who will also report any Outcasts, and can act as “Soft Protection Zones” by attempting to protect Innocents who are within range of the guard tower. Not a large area, and the guards would be killable like any mob. This would not extended past the bridge to places like Corruption. Those need to remain unguarded to prevent over-farming.

While Outcasts and Criminals are in the “Soft Guard Zone” prevent Fast Travel for them at all times. The debuff could be caused by the close proximity to the mages in the towns who are interfering with an Outcasts/Criminals ability to travel by magical means.

When in the “True” Wilderness, only prevent Fast Travel inside dungeons, caves, mines, and near Awakening Spawns - FOR EVERYONE. Including Hearthstones. Do what we’ve all talked about for years and make multiple entrances/exits to these places. Maybe require you to have a key to access secret entrances/exits for dungeons.

Don’t allow Outcasts (Not Gray/Criminals) to have homes or share house access with someone inside these “Soft Guard Zones”. If an Outcast is in someone’s home inside this area, the door becomes unlocked until they (the Outcast) leaves. If an Innocent who has a house in the “Soft Guard Zone” becomes an Outcast, their house becomes “Condemned” and loses all functionality by them or anyone. They have to return to Innocent or the house will go up for sale as no one could pay its taxes during that time.

Keep the Skill Loss penalties because THAT is the only “punishment” that requires actual player interaction.

When no Outcasts are in the “Soft Guard Zone” the status of the Zone under the mini-map could say “Guarded”, and when Outcasts are spotted it would say “On Alert”. Then you could click “On Alert” and a list of all the sightings would be displayed - the time of sighting, the Outcasts Name, and last known subregion. As long as Outcasts are in these “Soft Guard Zones” the status would show “On Alert”.

Remove the region-wide alert from murdering a player in the Wilderness & the Fast Travel debuff. Or at least remove the region-wide alert. I think this is the best of both worlds. You add some amount of protection for new players, and the true punishment for Outcasts (Skill Loss) remains - along with new Housing restrictions.

Comments

  • You need to get your own shard.
  • Is that a bad or good thing?
  • Testing on experimental, the new system is too reactionary instead of being proactive. So instead of helping players to actively defend against being PK’d, the system only reacts WHEN a player is PK’d. Seems illogical to the actual reason for the system.
  • SoapSoap Paper Street
    Mogra said:

    Don’t allow Outcasts (Not Gray/Criminals) to have homes or share house access with someone inside these “Soft Guard Zones”.

    You don’t become an outcast until you have 5 murders so you can still be out murdering people and not be an outcast. The murder counts fall off after 24 hours I think so this could still be circumvented if what your intentions with this are to stop people from having easy access kills.
  • It’s not so much to stop “easy-access” kills as it is to create an area where playing as an Outcast is more restricted and difficult, especially because new players will be plentiful in these areas - my fear being this will be the hottest spots for Outcasts to hunt.

    I’ve nothing against the Outcast play-style and plan on continuing to play on the 2 I have.

    I was there from the start and I saw all the complaints from Innocents (Blues), so I worry that too many new players trying this game will go to a spot to hunt or gather, get killed, the Outcast runs back to the safety of their nearby home, rinse & repeat, and the new player calls it quits and calls LoA a “gankbox”.

    That’s not good for the game. The current system does nothing to deter someone from being murdered - ESPECIALLY new players and gatherers. This idea really only promotes that protection in the original Guarded Areas - which makes sense given the proximity to the Town and local Resources.

    But to your point, if a player kills someone, it’s instantly a 24 hour Condemned house Status for them. Unless they start killing the day after taxes and no more than 5 people, they will lose their house anyway because they will be “too far gone” to return to Innocence in time. At least that’s my understanding with the Murder Count system. Hard to test because the Criminal timer has been kind of buggy lately in Experimental. But I believe it’s 24 hours per Count.
  • SoapSoap Paper Street
    https://www.legendsofaria.com/point-release-8-highlights-part-2/
    Doesn’t say if it stacks or not, but it’s a day per count served in game. If it stacked, then you’d be correct. But I’m not sure it does. Even so I like the idea. It’s like why are we joining townships and fighting in these militias if the town itself isn’t even protecting its citizens and upholding the law? I think you could go a step further even. Say, once reds were spotted, if the town was well supplied then it could send out a detachment of mounted guards that would hunt the reds that were spotted. Or keeping the town well supplied would boost the attack/defense of the guards because they’d be well fed and have better armor and weapons, I guess.

    And yeah I’ve been here from the start too. It’s funny they always try to over complicate this red vs blue stuff - which is why the removed Mounted Combat, too. There was a huge discussion on it that was swept under the rug and white knighted by some of their favorite pet players. But it is what it is I guess. I’m still salty lol.
  • Soap said:

    Doesn’t say if it stacks or not, but it’s a day per count served in game. If it stacked, then you’d be correct. But I’m not sure it does.

    Seems strange if it didn't stack. Essentially a Red could going on a killing spree over a few hours, sit in their home for a day, and all the Murder Counts would decay.
    Soap said:

    Even so I like the idea. It’s like why are we joining townships and fighting in these militias if the town itself isn’t even protecting its citizens and upholding the law?

    Exactly. Its secondary effect would further involve the Townships in the defense of the Realm (couldn't help myself). This extra defense and difficulty would only apply to the "Soft Guard Zones" though.
    Soap said:

    I think you could go a step further even. Say, once reds were spotted, if the town was well supplied then it could send out a detachment of mounted guards that would hunt the reds that were spotted. Or keeping the town well supplied would boost the attack/defense of the guards because they’d be well fed and have better armor and weapons, I guess.

    Interesting. I like the idea of being able to buff the Guards by using the Township features. Gives players an extra reason to keep their Township supplied. But, I feel like sending a group of Mounted Guards out could be a little overkill maybe? Perhaps it would only target a Criminal who has been killing many players or has a high Murder Count?
  • The kills do stack. If you kill three people all within an hour you won't be back to zero kills for 72 hours. You lose one PK kill count per 24 hours.
  • Thanks for clarifying. That is the way it should be, in my opinion. Account for every murder. I still the issues I brought up as being detrimental to new players, though.
  • SoapSoap Paper Street
    @Mogra
    Sure, I was only giving more ideas to make the new player zones less risky to blues since that seems like it’d fit with your idea. I like the reasoning for it too with the mages causing the penalties applied to reds in the old zones and then loosening the restrictions on them the further into the wilds people go. End of the day it will be skill loss that determines who plays and stays red vs who doesn't have the stomach for it. You’ll actually be able to associate a highly skilled player to their red name tag.
  • I think the idea that Innocent players and Guilds will rise up and police their own is unthoughtful. The past 2 nights I have been playing to get some better idea of how the system will work now that the true test has begun, and what I have found so far is that Outcasts are zerging (as expected) and/or not losing their heads on death. The second part may be attributed to camaraderie developed between an Outcast and an Anti-PK.

    So far we’ve seen zergs running amok in Eldeir for 2 nights, with the alarm doing little to help anyone. It’s usually too late, unless in a dungeon where the warning is more particular to your current area. This is precisely why areas close to Cities and Towns should be made more difficult (for Criminals) to protect players who can do nothing to defend or aid in their escape from the Outcast Zerg.

    The current system is not doing its job. If the idea is to wait for an Outcast to finally die and take skill loss to be affective - you may have lost a great deal of new players by then. No one wants to play a game to feel helpless. This system does not empower anyone and the police force that was prophesied is no where to be found.
  • The population isn't going to organise in two nights.
    ATM death is the best time to punish PKs - since there is no 'capture', only 'kill', that is when they should receive punishment. They should not be remotely punished the second they commit a murder (or as you have suggested, before that) because they are still free in the world.
    The problem I see with the broadcasts is location vagueness combined with lack of tracking/detect hidden - coordinates wouldn't hurt (and rough group size)
  • MograMogra US
    edited December 9
    OG Brum said:

    The population isn't going to organise in two nights.
    ATM death is the best time to punish PKs - since there is no 'capture', only 'kill', that is when they should receive punishment. They should not be remotely punished the second they commit a murder (or as you have suggested, before that) because they are still free in the world.
    The problem I see with the broadcasts is location vagueness combined with lack of tracking/detect hidden - coordinates wouldn't hurt (and rough group size)

    I feel again, you misunderstand my intentions. I don’t want to punish Criminals or Outcasts before, during, or after their murders take place. I believe punishment should only exist upon their death and subsequent loss of their head. What I have outlined is an increase in difficulty in the sections of the map which would make sense. Areas near towns and within the borders of towns would only make sense to be an increased area of lawfulness. Whereas areas outside of there, the true Wilderness, would decrease in difficulty and thus, create an area where playing a PK is not only easier but also requires them to rely less on strength of numbers - since Fast Travel and instant zone Alerts would be removed (by my idea). The true punishment, in both mine and the current system, will still be skill loss. That should be enough in terms of the trade off gained for being Red.

    I’ve always said, the only time a Red should be “Punished” is upon death. I feel I’ve made that abundantly clear so I don’t know where the idea is that I want them punished prior to that. Making it more difficult to run around in a Zerg murdering new players, as has been the norm of the past weekend, is not punishment; it’s common sense. This, again, would only apply inside the borders of Towns and Cities. The True Wilderness, outside of the borders, would be easier for Outcasts and Criminals to live. We’re not going to retain players when the system does nothing to help new players protect themselves, aside from relying on this idea of a player wide police force.
  • The past few days we saw a lot of red zergs running around killing anything they saw, but I'm already seeing the zergs die down. I've spoken to a few reds and even when running in zergs, they are dying and losing their heads. Most players I know who went red have their skills down around 90 now. They are getting easier to kill. Hell, I'm no PvP star, but even I got a couple stragglers last night and took their heads.

    Give the new system some time to play out. I'm betting that within a week or two the red zergs will be gone and the real reds will be those who sneak around, slow play and take out targets loaded with loot and vulnerable. How being a murderer should be.

    The zergs will move to militias, if they want to zerg.
  • Teufel said:

    Give the new system some time to play out. I'm betting that within a week or two the red zergs will be gone and the real reds will be those who sneak around, slow play and take out targets loaded with loot and vulnerable. How being a murderer should be.

    The zergs will move to militias, if they want to zerg.

    My experience is a bit different, at least in the zones I have frequented over the weekend. But I would agree on your assessment of how Red play should be. But at the same time, this isn’t an idea because I am only worried about retaining new players. I worry that eventually the Wilderness will be emptied of Reds entirely. That’s why I think the difficulty of the zones should vary based on proximity to Towns and Cities.

    I’m all for giving it time and seeing what happens. But during that time, I can still envision the issues that will probably come to light with this current system. No matter if there are more or less Reds, new players are still left being helpless in most situations. And I don’t want to see Reds be so limited as to become a rarity. I just don’t see it (Crime System) accomplishing what it set out to do: protecting Innocents and creating a “balanced” risk factor for Reds. I don’t think Reds are for everyone, nor should they be. But even hardcore PK’s might have to ask themselves if the time is worth it when faced with a character who is destroyed by skill loss.
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