what stops griefing and targeted pvp harassment?

edited October 10 in General Discussion
I'm starting to regret buying this now. I bought this after I heard about pvp only being in special areas. now they are lessening the guard zones even more lol.

what about this game is going to stop players from griefing you by killing and looting you over and over?
that was one thing in ultima online that did not make me want to play anymore.

unless there are PVE only community mod servers?

Comments

  • I just wonder on why they can't seem to find a balance.
    They keep going from one extreme to another.

    At launch 70% of the map was PvP, 30% PvE. The number 1 complaint was griefing and harassment due to PvP. They kept the rules like that for 9 months and during that time 95% of all players stop playing. Some left because due to lack of content, but reading the forums, reddit and discord, most left due to the PvP issue. Over those 9 months, the game went from probably 10,000 or more concurrent players in December to ~500 concurrent players in August. Most of the players that were still playing, were mainly into PvP. Clearly there were more PvE players than PvP players but the PvP players harrassed the PvE players so much that many lost interest in the game. They also kept advertising the game as an Ultima Online spiritual successor and even though Ultima Onine started out as pure PvP, it moved to PvE eventually and that's when Ultima Online became huge. Therefore most UO players are PvE players.

    Then Steam launch happened and they decided to make the world map 80% PvE and 20% PvP, hoping that all those who complained about the PvP issue would come back and also attract new players. However this was way too late, the PvE players were already long gone and had showed very little interest in coming back. Only the PvP players were still playing. With this change they effectively alienated most players that were still playing which were the PvP players, this resulted in very poor Steam reviews. Most steam reviews came from PvP players who played through the entire 9 months and were now completely pissed off with those changes. The PvE players who complained over the past 9 months quit long ago and didn't even show up for the Steam launch, thus the game didn't receive much positive reviews on Steam from PvE players who would have actually liked the new changes.

    The poor Steam reviews lead to poor sales. The game fell out of the top 100 sale charts within just days. It was an extremely underwhelming launch for everyone involved.
    The concurrent players drop to 100-200 players, an all time low.

    Now 2 months after the Steam launch, they once again decide to go to another full extreme and make the entire world map PvP (99%), except for the towns. Their thought, PvE didn't work, so f*ck it, let's listen to the few players that are left and make every PvP. This could work, who knows.

    Problem is however, even if this works to attract more players, once the game gets going again and you have 1000s of players back, the PvP issue of griefing and harassment is still unsolved. For as long as the game focuses heavily on non combat skills, such as crafting, gathering resources, gardening etc. there will be heavy griefing going on.

    I sincerely wish this game would work out, but these changes that go from one extreme to another, keeps alienating a massive target audience. If they want to be 100% PvP game, sure that's fine, but then don't advertise it as a successor to Ultima Online, because then you will attract mainly PvE players again. Though Ultima Online did start with PvP, it only had it's breakthrough when they added Trammel which supported a fully cloned world map with PvE rules.

    It looks like they have 2 real options.

    Option #1 (this seems that they're doing now)
    Rebrand LoA as full PvP game, get rid of all the remaining PvE players, only focus on players who prefer PvP. This could work, but as mentioned if no solution is found for the griefing of players with non combat skills, the community outroar will return.

    Option #2
    Find a way to balance PvE with PvP. One could argue that they tried this with the previous change, but in my opinion they didn't try to balance it. So far they only went from one extreme to another. The game rules were either in favor of PvP players or in favor of PvE players, but never really balanced.

    I am curious on what the game looks like in a year. If it's still around and if, will it have more players?
  • These changes will be a disaster for Aria...
  • bring back the game that I play between November 2018- March 2019. That was the best time.
    every patch they nerfed or change something instead of fixing the bugs.
  • Yiannis said:

    These changes will be a disaster for Aria...

    I agree completely.

  • wafflepkwafflepk United States
    mindfray said:

    I'm starting to regret buying this now. I bought this after I heard about pvp only being in special areas. now they are lessening the guard zones even more lol.

    what about this game is going to stop players from griefing you by killing and looting you over and over?
    that was one thing in ultima online that did not make me want to play anymore.

    unless there are PVE only community mod servers?

    Check out Hope Server, i believe it is full PvE.

    Also, whats to stop players from griefing you?
    That's the beauty of a sandbox, the choice is yours my friend, embrace it.
  • I agree, I don't think making the PvP area larger than before is going to help the game. Putting it back to where it was prior to Steam seems reasonable. There was a good balance in regards to risk vs. reward for gathering tradeskill materials. Right now there is no risk at all. This might be OK if mob AI was better and there were deeper and more meaningful PvE options, but that only works if Citadel were to decide that is the direction they want to go with the game and really expand and deepen the PvE content.
  • Griefing exists in every game - at least now, griefers can be killed.
  • So. Much. Melodrama.
    The % of map that is PvP / PvE isn't really the issue. The issue will be reigning in freedom to wantonly kill at no cost (res-killing specifically must be coded in to prevent it). I have no doubt abuse / harassment will be reportable / bannable even if it is, in theory, sandbox permissible.
    There are endless means by which PKs worst behaviour can be inhibited so how about holding off on complaining about changes that we don't even know the effects of yet.
  • CerynCeryn Japan
    edited October 12
    OG Brum said:

    So. Much. Melodrama.
    The % of map that is PvP / PvE isn't really the issue. The issue will be reigning in freedom to wantonly kill at no cost (res-killing specifically must be coded in to prevent it). I have no doubt abuse / harassment will be reportable / bannable even if it is, in theory, sandbox permissible.
    There are endless means by which PKs worst behaviour can be inhibited so how about holding off on complaining about changes that we don't even know the effects of yet.

    Exactly. They already said they are adding short and long term murder counts and stiff penalties for killing.

    It's not announced yet but we can make some assumptions just from the wording.

    There will be murder counts that take a long time to decay. These will be what stops red players from just deciding they want to suddenly be blue again with a few days of macroing. For reference, these were 40 hours of play time in Ultima Online and the progress time was reset if you killed in the middle of a 40 hour count degrading.

    Short term counts were what determined if you could actually kill someone without reprocussions. If you had over 5 of these counts and you died you #permanently# lost around 8-12% of your skills (all of them) if you resed before you were under 5 counts. For reference in UO these were 8 hours long and reset the progress if you killed any additional players.

    Basically the implication of this in UO was that if you roamed around all day killing you would very quickly rack up over 5 statloss kills. This meant that killing the PK would always result in them not being able to resurrect for at least 8 hours (sometimes 16h, 24h, etc) because no one in their right mind resurrects with statloss since it would take you more than a week to rebuild your character (probably more since you cant really grind safely as a red).

    A system like this makes PKing pretty rare since "soft" PKs who are avoiding statloss can really only kill someone once every 8-9h and they cannot roam as a big group since every person who participates in a kill gets a murder count.

  • There is no direction, they simply are trying to get back the old players that left like me for the rape of pvp, but meantime they got a playerbase pve-oriented that reclaim their place.

    i can say clearly that the old players base will not come back anymore, ur not trustful, we simply landed in other places more reliable that this uncertain game design
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