Archery is worse than I expected

I had 100 archery on a hybrid character with both GM archery and piercing prior to the recent changes. So, I soulstoned the archery and switched all 100 points to another character. I just tested archery out tonight for the first time since the patch and I must say I am part horrified, part perplexed, and very disappointed. First off, the special moves for the bows are gone. No more double-shot! And you can no longer fire from a horse, which makes zero sense to me - especially when training on Forest Walkers or other mobs where being mobile is key. In addition, as your character is drawing his bow you are basically hamstrung in walk-mode as you fire.

It is absolutely the most ridiculous and absurd turn of events (and nerfing fiasco) in any game I have experienced to date. I will not comment much on damage since this archer has yet to achieve 100 vigor and 100 martial prowess. I can say that it took approximately 80 arrows to kill one forest walker, with GM archery and roughly 50 each in vigor and martial prowess. :)

I know others have posted about this, but I can't help but comment here and ask, "WHY?" What was so wrong with archery prior that it had to be "reduced" to this extent? Seriously developers, this is now a DEAD skill. Players, I hate to disappoint or derail you and your progress in the game, but if you are working on archery, STOP - at least for now. You are not going to like it, especially compared to what you could have with other skills. This is just bad.
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Comments

  • BJC289BJC289 Monterey Bay, California
    edited August 20
    mage=ranged with powerful spells hitting up to 200+ dmg with a single ability
    archery= ranged with no abilities and only auto attack

    i love the game with my paladin archetype quite a bit so far, but if archery remains this way, i honestly cant see myself subbing or continuing to play. Archery is a huge deal to me in most rpg games i play. it doesnt have to have a bunch abilities like evocation does, but for goodness sake devs give it something lol.
  • This game deserves to fail, the devs are clueless.
  • Grex said:

    This game deserves to fail, the devs are clueless.

    You keep posting this vitriol in every thread. If you hate it that bad, just quit.

    Nobody is forcing you to play...
  • Archery has been a very difficult skill to balance. Here's my experience from 2017 until now. I agree with you, it's not very fun to play.

    1. Archery used to have full run, full damage abilities and a special "sniper" shot ability. This was extremely over powered. Imagine instantly dying and having no idea what you just got hit with.

    Everyone complained, so they redesigned it...

    2. Then they removed "sniper shot" and removed the ability to run and shoot.

    Everyone complained, so they redesigned it...

    3. Now we are here. I agree it is pretty crappy but I do believe the devs will make it better.

    If they simply removed the hamstring and added some ability books it could be pretty amazing. Leave the stamina drain as well to help balance it. Just my opinion though...
  • MofakaMofaka United States
    I think one of the issues with marshall skills, and specifically archery is that they changed too much.

    They reduced strength bonus to damage
    They reduced vigor bonus to damage
    They created marshall prowess to restore some of this damage
    They removed accuracy bonus to weapons, moving that to enchantment (which is highly gated)
    They removed a bunch of damage bonus to weapons moving that to enchantment (..again gated)
    They removed all archery "Attacks - Power shot, mortal strike, doubleshot"
    They added firing while moving
    They added automatic reload/snare with duration (I call this the perma hamstring change)
    They removed all archery "Abilities - Hunters Mark, StunShot, Wound"

    The game has a lot of systems, and they interact, and this makes things complicated.

    So a Dev could say... "We didnt reduce the over all effectiveness of marshall abilities with this change, we only eliminated the viability of some hybrid builds. As all the damage and accuracy is available via enchanting"

    They would be right, the numbers probably add up.
    However, for it to be TRUE, enchanting needs to be accessible.
    Prior, any player could get a decent accuracy/damage weapon before. Now only the extremely wealthy or those with GM crafters and tons of resources can have them.
    This... all so that you can do less damage and have less versatility than a mage.

    While any of these changes alone are controversial and could shock the playerbase...
    A complete marshall overhaul + archery overhall just seem to be a bit much.
    I'm not sure if archery is suffering from its rework, or marshall, or a combination of the two.
  • The archer was my favorite character. So much so - I created four Archers - Shadow Walker, Treasure Hunter, Alchemist, and one for my girlfriend. With the recent changes to archer - being hamstrung after every shot makes the archer just plain useless for solo play. So much for my hunter/gatherers :(. I have been looking forward to taking my main archer to dungeons - but not anymore. I don't even play them … Hamstringing and the removal of Overdraw and Double Shot compounds this issue. Devs - PLEASE either restore or fix Archery, PLEASE!

    My girlfriend and I really enjoyed playing our archers - solo and together - but, not now.

    Note: We have worked hard to GM Lumberjacking & Carpentry to be able to make High Quality Bows for our vendors - now - PFFFT. (Not to mention the assassination of Blightwood) Yes, we have also have been working 'orders' for essences - but, even the best ones do not seem to alleviate the problem with Archery.

  • Ithiel said:

    Archery has been a very difficult skill to balance. Here's my experience from 2017 until now. I agree with you, it's not very fun to play.

    1. Archery used to have full run, full damage abilities and a special "sniper" shot ability. This was extremely over powered. Imagine instantly dying and having no idea what you just got hit with.

    Everyone complained, so they redesigned it...

    2. Then they removed "sniper shot" and removed the ability to run and shoot.

    Everyone complained, so they redesigned it...

    3. Now we are here. I agree it is pretty crappy but I do believe the devs will make it better.

    If they simply removed the hamstring and added some ability books it could be pretty amazing. Leave the stamina drain as well to help balance it. Just my opinion though...

    I like your suggestions here. They absolutely MUST add back in some special abilities beyond just auto-fire. Right now this is the most mundane, pitiful, and monotonous fighting skill there is. The hamstring is absurd also, and I do not understand why we cannot shoot while on a horse anymore. ZERO logic there. In the meantime, I enjoy my assassin quite a bit. No plans to touch archery again until this is corrected.
  • I don't hate the game Ithiel. I don't like some of there ideas. I don't think anyone agrees archery is better now... They have made several judgement calls that are questionable. In the end if the game fails it was there decisions and bad ideas.
  • Grex said:

    I don't hate the game Ithiel. I don't like some of there ideas. I don't think anyone agrees archery is better now... They have made several judgement calls that are questionable. In the end if the game fails it was there decisions and bad ideas.

    I agree with this statement but the devs are clearly trying to make it better.

    Some attempts fall flat on its face like archery.

    The real question is are you prepared to stick through the ups and downs of the game like a marriage?

    Or quit and take your ball elsewhere? Either decision is fine...

    However, the vitriol is annoying when you spam multiple threads, and the rest of us are trying to make suggestions and have intelligent conversations...

    I took a 2 month break to wait on development, it helps
  • I'm not the one taking breaks kiddo.
  • Ithiel said:

    Archery has been a very difficult skill to balance. Here's my experience from 2017 until now. I agree with you, it's not very fun to play.

    1. Archery used to have full run, full damage abilities and a special "sniper" shot ability. This was extremely over powered. Imagine instantly dying and having no idea what you just got hit with.

    Everyone complained, so they redesigned it...

    2. Then they removed "sniper shot" and removed the ability to run and shoot.

    Everyone complained, so they redesigned it...

    3. Now we are here. I agree it is pretty crappy but I do believe the devs will make it better.

    If they simply removed the hamstring and added some ability books it could be pretty amazing. Leave the stamina drain as well to help balance it. Just my opinion though...

    Please stop being such a fanboy, its ridiculous seeing some people trying to explain what can't be and should not be explained, i played my archer character after a year of no playing and what they did, it's absolutely unbelievable, makes zero sense and it's another spit in the player's face
  • I told him to stop with the false statements. Ithiel has no clue what he talking about. No one factions or guild wars on VE the guy is delusional.
  • Grex said:

    I told him to stop with the false statements. Ithiel has no clue what he talking about. No one factions or guild wars on VE the guy is delusional.

    He is quite right though, expressing your perplexity on a change is fine once or twice. Repeating it ad nauseam is not doing any good for anyone, especially for the game.

    Now on the actual topic... i agree. I have a GM archer and right now it is quite boring to play. I have a decent dps when going in dungeon in groups, but that's it.
    The damage is fine like this, it's actually the mages and tamers who should be toned down in pve, but as a fighter archetype the archer is putting out the right numbers. What the skill needs is more flexibility and more options. Personally i would do the following:

    1) Add some archery skills to the fighter profession, at least one per profession level. Hamstring is fine as the journeyman one, stunshot would be a good GM one. As a master skill i would put back the old overdraw.
    2) We have a system in place which supports multiple arrow types, and i think that we should play more into this concept. Add many kind of arrows that have a chance to inflict a status on the target, like Poisoned arrows, barbed arrows (bleeding), frost arrows and mortal arrows. You can add arrows that have an added stamina damage or mana damage to the target. There are a lot of possibilities here to explore and to give archers a more fun gameplay and carpenters something more to do than 3 bows and a shield.
  • Azzazel said:

    Ithiel said:

    Archery has been a very difficult skill to balance. Here's my experience from 2017 until now. I agree with you, it's not very fun to play.

    1. Archery used to have full run, full damage abilities and a special "sniper" shot ability. This was extremely over powered. Imagine instantly dying and having no idea what you just got hit with.

    Everyone complained, so they redesigned it...

    2. Then they removed "sniper shot" and removed the ability to run and shoot.

    Everyone complained, so they redesigned it...

    3. Now we are here. I agree it is pretty crappy but I do believe the devs will make it better.

    If they simply removed the hamstring and added some ability books it could be pretty amazing. Leave the stamina drain as well to help balance it. Just my opinion though...

    Please stop being such a fanboy, its ridiculous seeing some people trying to explain what can't be and should not be explained, i played my archer character after a year of no playing and what they did, it's absolutely unbelievable, makes zero sense and it's another spit in the player's face
    1. So what you are saying is, if my comments aren't full of piss and vinegar, smothered in cry sauce. Then, I am wrong...

    Gotchya!

    2. The game launched in December 2018.

    Right now it's August.

    December to August = 8 months give or take a few days.

    12 months you say...

    Are you judging the game in alpha? Or math skills just bad?
  • Yo Bros, let's concentrate on the fact that Archery (especially for going solo) is in fact broken and the best way to either reverse the update back to the way it was or fix it … *shrug*
  • Fletcher said:

    Yo Bros, let's concentrate on the fact that Archery (especially for going solo) is in fact broken and the best way to either reverse the update back to the way it was or fix it … *shrug*

    Honestly the best way to fix most of the balance issues with the game would be to 'reverse the update'. There are very few things that they have updated that make me go... 'hmmmmm that was really smart and i"m glad they did that'.
  • JoxxJoxx United States
    edited August 26
    Interesting, i always see bow users destroying it in Pvp. Hell, they dont even need agility as attack speed does nothing for them.
  • Joxx said:

    Hell, they dont even need agility as attack speed does nothing for them.

    Each shot costs stamina.
  • I'm not a pvper. I enjoyed archery enough that I tended to just play my hidey-archer exclusively before the Steam patch. I work in the gaming and comics field full time, and have a fair amount of experience with conceptual work in games.

    The new archery system is really, really poor. I assume they just threw their hands up knowing they had a firm release date and had no good ideas about what to do with archery. So, they made it unplayable, and tossed it in with the other melee skills, instead of keeping it as it was.

    Which, is confusing. The old system was far from perfect- but it was fun.

    Now, it is just terrible.

    It needs addressed. before anything else, because it is ridiculously bad, and one of the core fighting systems in the game.

    The main problem revolves around the basic idea of what real archery actually is. Actual archers can shoot, and then move freely. Archers are lightly armored. They don't carry heavy swords, maces, or polearms or shields, and thus are much more mobile.

    In all computer games, this is how archery functions. It's not that hard.

    For reasons I can't even imagine, archers in LOA act like they are shooting themselves in the foot with each shot- pinned to the ground, as it were.

    If archers were treated more like mages, (ranged, people), instead of halberd-men, the problem wouldn't exist.

    Please fix archery, someone!
  • Now this is a productive discussion by BallsOFyre - Thanks! ^ I couldn't agree more ...
  • I'm trying to be patient about archery, really I am. Why on earth would the devs be introducing new forms of combat with shouts and so on, when the basic, foundation combat is clearly broken and needs addressed? Forget adding new stuff!! Make the basic, foundation weapons playable. I like Aria, I like it's old school vibe and it's familiar UO feeling world.

    However, combat using archery and stealth are just dreadful- please, please give archery some attention soon!
  • I've lost patience and will try again at release. They keep loosing vision and reinventing the game. Who knows maybe it will be a Legends of Aria Battle Royal by the time they are done.
  • Please fix the archer to the way it was. I used to be able to hunt and explore dungeons but no longer. Being stuck is death. I spent hours GMing my Archer/Stealth and really enjoyed playing him. Not anymore - I don't play him. :( I was willing to pay-to-play this game - but NOT w/o my Archers.
  • My 5th character was my stealth archer.
    I am now reduced to 4 characters and I'm not missing the 5th at all.
  • JubbinJubbin Washington State
    Grex said:

    This game deserves to fail, the devs are clueless.

    +1 to that... I really do not understand why people are for real wasting their time with a dead end game. Devs ruin builds.. since cb2 they went downhill and fast.. I quit playing but for hopes that mmmaybe, just maybe, the devs will get their heads our their ass, specially Miphon... but no, been like 2 years and all I see are the SAME BUGS since I was playing.. I can't believe how bad this game is still. it's just funny to see how many of them actually defend this game XD as if we weren't here from day 1.. I was at least. poor suckers..
  • JubbinJubbin Washington State
    Builds that I had that devs ruined...**Unplayable Now**
    1: My Cleave III/VG III/SS III heavy armor lancer...
    2: My Snipe III/SS III/ VG
    3: My "Jubbin" build that Sonya herself put up on a character build page (a page that is no longer up) which was 100 mining, 100 blacksmith, 100 vig, 100 healing/bandage, 100 lance, 100 heavy armor for
    VG III/SS III and had a 3rd prestige option for w/e you wanted to farm metals AND be PvP rdy.
    4: My Snipe III/ VG III/ Cleave III build: archery 100, vig 100, healing 100, heavy armor 100, lance 100, the rest would go to the capabilities of poisoning and minor mana regen, 70evo-30chan or w/e
    5: My any heavy armor build is crap now that you NEED SHIELDS for VG and VG is nerffed too so it's a wtf moment...
    6: My Stealther build... (can't recall if I had evo or not BUT they nerffed stab from stealth and didn't listen to the core PvP groups on how to address it.

    Listen, I get it: people don't like dying, but when you take away skill based assaults and replace it with carebear mechanics, this type of trash happens.

    to be clear CB2 had the BEST overall balance in PvP minus having that snare spell as a prestige (in cb2 times) then it would have been a top tier PvP game by now. sad.

    With that being said, how many chars are you allowed to have? and I had 6 of my toons thrashed with either nerfs or straight slaughter of said builds, by the devs- making the build no longer "Work" how it should.

    the game had a meta back in cb2 BUT it was due to massive bugs allowing players to cast ruin and swing melee (so long you're in range) at the same time as you cast, and ruin is pretty damn fast, so you can imagine how a hally swing doing 60-80 damage plus a 50 damage cast would destroy people, every half a second you're hitting for 110+ XD BUT when that was fixed (because of my core group constantly spamming how terrible it was to the devs) that meta was gone and mages had to be more tactic driven. more skill, less spam.

    The crappy part about all this - the core PvP players that played casters got upset cause they were getting hit too hard..... YOURE IN CLOTH!!!! you should get hit hard wtf are you smoking?!?!?!

    Anywho... -->The Vets Know<--... and that is why this game is trash and get's poopy reviews.
    Dev team is lacking/slacking bad..
  • JubbinJubbin Washington State
    btw back in the day, to get the most out of your bow damage, used to be: max your str, and vig. done...
    there were prestige abilities for archery as well. Snipe I, II, and III, wound/Stun Shot. Dunno what they changed other than completely removing snipe which was the best bow prestige for damage. had HIGH burst damage and only 10 seconds to reuse (which was the only over the top thing about it.. Just change it to 20 seconds, drop 50 damage off of it- done.. but nope let's remove it cause we can't fix anything. ffs
  • And despite ALL that. You're still here.

    Devs must be doing something right.
  • beater07 said:

    And despite ALL that. You're still here.

    Devs must be doing something right.

    https://steamcharts.com/app/594770

    The declining population says otherwise, and pretty sure a good chunk of people still hang around because it's amusing watching this devolve almost beat for beat the same way Shroud of the Avatar did though.

    Hell you yourself even tried excusing them for failure to deliver on physical rewards from their Kickstarter in that deleted thread which is exactly like SotA in both trying to shame someone asking for an update on something Citadel is obligated to deliver and the thread getting deleted.
  • JubbinJubbin Washington State
    edited September 27
    I've actually deleted the game from my ssd XD
    I just came back like 4 days ago and ONLY to the forums to see if the devs even fixed any of the issues when I was playing. and to say "I told you so" to miphon. could you imagine what this game would be like if they kept listening to the UHHH crew? my god this game would be amazing...
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