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Make Crafting Matter Again...

edited August 17 in Feedback & Suggestions
I consolidated a bunch of ideas I had stewing into a single reddit comment and thought here would be a more conducive place to post it.

I think the biggest problem with the interaction between PVE and PVP is that there isn't harmony. So first you have to ask yourself. What do PVE'rs provide to PVP'ers and likewise. The thing that immediately comes to mind is Albion online.

Basically PVE'rs provide all of the economy and support mechanisms for all of the pvp'rs. You can not wage wars without either a very good crafter support econ. or a ton of money. Losing fights costs massive amounts of money whether it is in 1v1's or 5v5's or ZVZ's (100v100).

Item Churn

How this translates to LOA for example would be in how you tune things like item churn. In Albion when you kill someone it is full loot as well but all items in the victim's pack has a chance to turn into trash. A clever way of creating item churn that isn't 'durability'. Durability does not make sense because players want to feel uber and not like they're covered in construction paper. Durability could once again be used to create an additional revenue market for crafters with repairs.

Stop Cutting Crafters Out of the Game

Another brilliant system built into Albion is the 'Black Market'. Every single item that drops in the world of Albion is crafted by players including mob drops. Players can sell items to the black market which has fluctuating demand based on player activity. When something in the world drops it is pulled from the black market. I don't think LoA has to go this extreme however...

Crafters have to get the respect that they deserve. Things like T3 books having no crafter involvement is bad. Having artifact items which have zero crafter involvement is bad. They should be dropping components that crafters use to make Artifacts and T3 books. Artifacts could be a very low random % chance upon crafting an item or made from an ingredient that drops off of very high tier mobs.

If they're going to make the Oasis the only place for pvp then they need to make it the ultimate place for pve. Skull of deception should be reinstated. It used to be the only place to get wyverns, why change that? T3 book ingredients and artifact ingredients should drop off of mobs in oasis that crafters use to craft T3 Books and artifacts. Establish it as the end game zone...

Create Crafter Skill Diversity

Crafters need diversity. Right now it's an achievement grind. Crafters 6x gm and then quit because they're useless. Diversity would mean that they integrate additional skills into the build aside from gatherer/crafter skills. So imagine that they added a new material tier called Ethereal. Ethereal ore, leather, wood... all of these are farmed strictly in the oasis. Now to forge an ethereal sword one must have GM slashing as well as blacksmith. To craft an ethereal bow one must have GM archery and carpentry. In this way we incentivize crafters to do more than neckbeard in town on their lonesome. Etc etc.

Auction Houses Are Important

I personally don't hate the idea of having auction houses in town. I think it does well to move items. There is simply too much emphasis on prime properties. If you don't have a property smack dab next to a moon gate or a city you are SOL. Auction houses soften this. Properties can still be important with better return on sales vs using an AH which takes a larger cut.

New Type of Player Run Shop - Inns

In that same vein we could create a new type of vendor - the inn keeper. Give people the tools to create their own social hot spots out in the middle of nowhere. I always imagined that next to gazers would be a perfect spot for a player run inn where bards weave tunes for weary travelers, owners sell their wares, and adventurers stop in for gear before they set off on their adventures.

Finish the Red System

Last but not least, we need mechanisms for punishing red players for their anti-social behavior. I'm not talking about something as artificial as debuffs but things that make intuitive sense like Jail time for example would be a fantastic counter pressure and would promote the anti-pk playstyle.

Comments

  • Death said:

    I consolidated a bunch of ideas I had stewing into a single reddit comment and thought here would be a more conducive place to post it.

    I think the biggest problem with the interaction between PVE and PVP is that there isn't harmony. So first you have to ask yourself. What do PVE'rs provide to PVP'ers and likewise. The thing that immediately comes to mind is Albion online.

    Basically PVE'rs provide all of the economy and support mechanisms for all of the pvp'rs. You can not wage wars without either a very good crafter support econ. or a ton of money. Losing fights costs massive amounts of money whether it is in 1v1's or 5v5's or ZVZ's (100v100).

    Item Churn

    How this translates to LOA for example would be in how you tune things like item churn. In Albion when you kill someone it is full loot as well but all items in the victim's pack has a chance to turn into trash. A clever way of creating item churn that isn't 'durability'. Durability does not make sense because players want to feel uber and not like they're covered in construction paper. Durability could once again be used to create an additional revenue market for crafters with repairs.

    Stop Cutting Crafters Out of the Game

    Another brilliant system built into Albion is the 'Black Market'. Every single item that drops in the world of Albion is crafted by players including mob drops. Players can sell items to the black market which has fluctuating demand based on player activity. When something in the world drops it is pulled from the black market. I don't think LoA has to go this extreme however...

    Crafters have to get the respect that they deserve. Things like T3 books having no crafter involvement is bad. Having artifact items which have zero crafter involvement is bad. They should be dropping components that crafters use to make Artifacts and T3 books. Artifacts could be a very low random % chance upon crafting an item or made from an ingredient that drops off of very high tier mobs.

    If they're going to make the Oasis the only place for pvp then they need to make it the ultimate place for pve. Skull of deception should be reinstated. It used to be the only place to get wyverns, why change that? T3 book ingredients and artifact ingredients should drop off of mobs in oasis that crafters use to craft T3 Books and artifacts. Establish it as the end game zone...

    Create Crafter Skill Diversity

    Crafters need diversity. Right now it's an achievement grind. Crafters 6x gm and then quit because they're useless. Diversity would mean that they integrate additional skills into the build aside from gatherer/crafter skills. So imagine that they added a new material tier called Ethereal. Ethereal ore, leather, wood... all of these are farmed strictly in the oasis. Now to forge an ethereal sword one must have GM slashing as well as blacksmith. To craft an ethereal bow one must have GM archery and carpentry. In this way we incentivize crafters to do more than neckbeard in town on their lonesome. Etc etc.

    Auction Houses Are Important

    I personally don't hate the idea of having auction houses in town. I think it does well to move items. There is simply too much emphasis on prime properties. If you don't have a property smack dab next to a moon gate or a city you are SOL. Auction houses soften this. Properties can still be important with better return on sales vs using an AH which takes a larger cut.

    New Type of Player Run Shop - Inns

    In that same vein we could create a new type of vendor - the inn keeper. Give people the tools to create their own social hot spots out in the middle of nowhere. I always imagined that next to gazers would be a perfect spot for a player run inn where bards weave tunes for weary travelers, owners sell their wares, and adventurers stop in for gear before they set off on their adventures.

    Finish the Red System

    Last but not least, we need mechanisms for punishing red players for their anti-social behavior. I'm not talking about something as artificial as debuffs but things that make intuitive sense like Jail time for example would be a fantastic counter pressure and would promote the anti-pk playstyle.

    I like how they punish reds in Archeage - if a red is killed, 5 random players (former victims) are elected for a trial, they decide for how long the red is send to jail (up tu several hours). These Trial are public and very entertaining and fun. You have to accomplish a short Quest for beeing able to take part on trials.

    I dont feel it is necessary to have crafter involved into every item or book - as long as >90% of items are craftable it is fine. To have some(!) Items requiring more than one crafting Profession is nice, we had this also in UO, most Crafters are multi-(5x or 6x) Crafters anyway. The Problem with crafting is that you cant progress without High Tier Mats, these are still to hard to get (Alychemy) and we only have the most raw and basic items to craft anyway, that is true fpr all Crafting Professions. Even the starter Clothes are not craftable, not to talk about fashion, more Weapons, more Spells,nice looking Bows, more Potions. These Items dont need to have different stats, just to be able to create a different look would be nice,
  • This archage trial system is hilarious, watching a video of towiliee...

  • Thank YouThank You Santa Cruz
    Death said:

    I consolidated a bunch of ideas I had stewing into a single reddit comment and thought here would be a more conducive place to post it.

    I think the biggest problem with the interaction between PVE and PVP is that there isn't harmony. So first you have to ask yourself. What do PVE'rs provide to PVP'ers and likewise. The thing that immediately comes to mind is Albion online.

    Basically PVE'rs provide all of the economy and support mechanisms for all of the pvp'rs. You can not wage wars without either a very good crafter support econ. or a ton of money. Losing fights costs massive amounts of money whether it is in 1v1's or 5v5's or ZVZ's (100v100).

    Item Churn

    How this translates to LOA for example would be in how you tune things like item churn. In Albion when you kill someone it is full loot as well but all items in the victim's pack has a chance to turn into trash. A clever way of creating item churn that isn't 'durability'. Durability does not make sense because players want to feel uber and not like they're covered in construction paper. Durability could once again be used to create an additional revenue market for crafters with repairs.

    Stop Cutting Crafters Out of the Game

    Another brilliant system built into Albion is the 'Black Market'. Every single item that drops in the world of Albion is crafted by players including mob drops. Players can sell items to the black market which has fluctuating demand based on player activity. When something in the world drops it is pulled from the black market. I don't think LoA has to go this extreme however...

    Crafters have to get the respect that they deserve. Things like T3 books having no crafter involvement is bad. Having artifact items which have zero crafter involvement is bad. They should be dropping components that crafters use to make Artifacts and T3 books. Artifacts could be a very low random % chance upon crafting an item or made from an ingredient that drops off of very high tier mobs.

    If they're going to make the Oasis the only place for pvp then they need to make it the ultimate place for pve. Skull of deception should be reinstated. It used to be the only place to get wyverns, why change that? T3 book ingredients and artifact ingredients should drop off of mobs in oasis that crafters use to craft T3 Books and artifacts. Establish it as the end game zone...

    Create Crafter Skill Diversity

    Crafters need diversity. Right now it's an achievement grind. Crafters 6x gm and then quit because they're useless. Diversity would mean that they integrate additional skills into the build aside from gatherer/crafter skills. So imagine that they added a new material tier called Ethereal. Ethereal ore, leather, wood... all of these are farmed strictly in the oasis. Now to forge an ethereal sword one must have GM slashing as well as blacksmith. To craft an ethereal bow one must have GM archery and carpentry. In this way we incentivize crafters to do more than neckbeard in town on their lonesome. Etc etc.

    Auction Houses Are Important

    I personally don't hate the idea of having auction houses in town. I think it does well to move items. There is simply too much emphasis on prime properties. If you don't have a property smack dab next to a moon gate or a city you are SOL. Auction houses soften this. Properties can still be important with better return on sales vs using an AH which takes a larger cut.

    New Type of Player Run Shop - Inns

    In that same vein we could create a new type of vendor - the inn keeper. Give people the tools to create their own social hot spots out in the middle of nowhere. I always imagined that next to gazers would be a perfect spot for a player run inn where bards weave tunes for weary travelers, owners sell their wares, and adventurers stop in for gear before they set off on their adventures.

    Finish the Red System

    Last but not least, we need mechanisms for punishing red players for their anti-social behavior. I'm not talking about something as artificial as debuffs but things that make intuitive sense like Jail time for example would be a fantastic counter pressure and would promote the anti-pk playstyle.

    +1
  • MorphMorph Denmark
    edited August 14
    Brilliant post @Death

    CS really should read this trough, print it, and take it to their next brainstorm meeting. Speaking directly to CS, you are beyond blessed to have players that look at your game and develop a strategically thought out plan. This write up by Death is nearly ready to just be full implemented – pros and cons have already be though out for you.

    I agree totally to your ideas, especially the idea to make crafting more diverse and they have to specialize in what they want to create.

    Do not want to turn this into a long post, so I'll end it by saying: CS you should be thrilled that someone spend so muchtime to think out what you can do to counter obstacles on the road – any company would love to have such dedication from their customers, use it!
  • SachaSacha [Reino de Aldor]
    Nice post, Death.
    When a (intelligent) mob kills a player he should loot a couple of random items. It's so nice to kill something and find it had a treasure in his bag.
  • +1 @Death
    This dude always has good ideas and suggestions.


    -Make Legends of Aria Great Again
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