Reds Get Stat Loss While the Sun is Up

I have been discussing this with some other GoT members and we believe it, or something like it, could make for a great compromise between reds and blues.

Let’s be honest, blues who like to farm quit games in droves after being PKd a few times. At the same time, reds want PvP action. Some reds just want to grief or even take pride in killing a game (we don’t care about them).

What if we introduce a system where reds have stat loss when they are logged in, outside a dungeon, during daylight?

That way blues, whom may not be adept at pvp have a chance to feel safeish while exploring our virtual world in the wild while the sun is up. It’s still not safe, but safer for them.
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Comments

  • I like the idea... why not make daylight safer and nighttime a bit more adventurous ? That idea has potential and would be easy to install without changing the game mechanics radically
  • Nice idea, but I think the wilderness is safe enough, whatever time of day. There should be a price for actually doing the killing though.
  • NecroNecro Azure
    Copy UOs karma system. The end.
  • SyhlSyhl France
    As i said on Discord, you are all focusing since the beginning of early access on : Players got PKed > Players leave > Game is dead

    But maybe the problem is somewhere else don't you think ? Do you really think all new players who don't stay is due to those vilains PKs ?

    Didn't see a red in wilderness since many weeks and i don't see players staying anyway.

    Most of players leaving the game don't even have a single skill 80+ and you can GM all skills in guarded area and you can do almost everything in guarded.

    Adding more penalties like you suggest to existing penalties for reds (soon they announced reds couldn't log off everywhere again one penalty more) won't make players to stay as they leave before the "red problem" you refer to.

    And let's be honest, the only adrenaline and fun you have in this game in PvE is because you take a risk to be killed, and you are very happy when you end your farm and recall without being PKed. If you remove that risk it's just a bad PvE game, PvE is not fun, boring, no IA, no tactics ... do you really think PvE will be better because you remove the only fun aspect, th eonly thing giving you adrenaline when doing it ?

    You continue asking PK penalties since the beginning, thinking this is the main problem with the game making players to leave, the problem is somewhere else. I would add that the wilderness PK/PVP is maybe the only original thing in this game, it's not PvE, it's not game mechanics, it's the fact you can be killed everywhere at anytime. Remove it, and it's just a common game without anything original and different from tons of F2P existing on the market.

    Yes you will say "Hey you still can do it ! We don't remove it, we just add penalties !" sure ... it's the same when you don't have courage to quit your girlfriend and start becoming horrible with her untill she quits you, and then you will say "Hey ! This is your choice !".

    The best way to remove something without clearly doing it, is to allow it and put so much restrictions it discourages ppl doing it. You still can say "Hey you can do it if you really want it!"

    Really, stop asking more penalties to unofficially remove the only original thing of this game, don't do like many other games starting with a similar concept and removed it thinking it will bring more players and made a mistake because they lost all.

    I play since the alpha, yes i have a red char i don't play since weeks due to lack of players on my server, i do PvE most of time and clearly remove the way to be PKed or lower this risk to almost 0 adding penalties to reds or heavy penalties during day or night and i will leave this game.

    Not threatening or so i will leave silently. I accept low pop, bad dev choices, tons of bugs, i accept all of that just BECAUSE this game is different than others. Remove or heavily restrict the only original aspect of the game and i will leave for sure and i'm sure many are like me.

    There are tons of idea to lower PK:

    For example, add multiple entrances / exit in dungeons = more chances to escape for blues + splitting a PK bus entering and random killing.

    PK not being able to log out everywhere (Outcast Naps on Trello) i agree with it, PKs logging in dungeon / awakening because they scouted with their blues will be removed.

    But please, stop with statloss or anything like that except if you really want to totally discourage PKs and at the end say "Hey your choice! You still can do it if you really want it!"
  • CerynCeryn Japan
    Syhl said:

    As i said on Discord, you are all focusing since the beginning of early access on : Players got PKed > Players leave > Game is dead

    ....

    I play since the alpha, yes i have a red char i don't play since weeks due to lack of players on my server, i do PvE most of time and clearly remove the way to be PKed or lower this risk to almost 0 adding penalties to reds or heavy penalties during day or night and i will leave this game.

    This has been rehashed many times and I agree with you on a lot of points but disagree on others.

    Simply put your first statement is not wrong:. Players got PKed > Players leave > Game is dead

    What you correctly stated later is that there are other issues that impact this and that the game needs risk to be fun. You are correct but you draw the wrong conclusions. Your cringy girlfriend example doesn't change that. Done correctly there can be both penalties for reds but still a high risk of being PKed when being stupid.

    UO was incredibly fun. It also had one if the strictest statloss systems against reds for any full loot MMO to date. When you died with short term kills you lost 9%-19% (based on kills) of your stats permanently. That's so harsh it's basically required you to remake your character. That's not fun... A prison system was also discussed as an alternative but that's a topic for another thread.

    Why did people love UO then? The answer was that it was still fun as hell to be a red. As a red, you knew if you could kill or not and if there would be consequences. You could simply say "I must consider my sins" and know if a kill would put you past the point of taking statloss. This applied to both reds AND blues (since it was possible to be blue but have a few decaying murder counts)

    The great thing about the UO system was that you were not only at risk of a red killing you but also blue players. You had to show some respect to your fellow players because they could punish you if you didn't.

    You made a statement that statloss reduces the chances of being PKed to zero. I disagree. Done correctly you have risk of dying to *both* red and blue PKs. The benefit to punishment is that those players have to actually think about if it's "worth it" to kill you.

    Let's pretend 5 kills makes you red and they decay one every 8 hours of real life time. (online or offline)

    Now kills over 10 will make you statloss. You can check this easily from a menu.

    Now you have to think if killing this miner with 100 ore is worth 8 hours or if you should save that kill for someone else.

    Blues can also kill as well. To make this harder kills under 5 decay slower (1 every 24 hours). Basically this means as a blue you can still PK but with less frequency than a red and if you are not careful you will turn red. The game naturally forces you to determine if killing is worth the consequences. This makes played behave somewhat ethically while still being able to do things you wouldn't do in real life. (Kill people)


    Arias problem is that it is *too* strict. As a blue I can't kill at all, I might as well be just living in the real world. A blue player is 100% ethical because the are forced to be. They can't even punish the jackass who is tagging all their dungeon mobs. They have no choice but to just move on. These games *require* that players are able to administer justice.

    By contrast Reds in Aria don't have to make any choices at all. Every player is exactly the same as an NPC monster. They don't have to make a choice who they kill, how often, or "why". Basically this means Reds won't make any choices at all. They will simply kill anything they see on sight. This includes grief killing miners, lumberjacks, and PVE players until they leave the game.

    If there were a trade-off, knowing that your death somehow costs that player something (such as a murder count which can cause them to be punished later) than players doing over tasks don't feel quite so bad losing 400 wood and a packhorse to a death they couldn't avoid.

  • SyhlSyhl France
    What you are describing is a complete karma system rebuild, that was not the subject.

    You are picking "statloss" word and include it in a massive karma system revamp. I don't say your system is good or not, but the original idea was to include statloss during daylight with the CURRENT system that is a heavy penalty.

    You say statloss is cool, UO had strict penalties and was fun ........ and you describe a decaying murder counter ...

    Again i don't say your system is nice or not i have no opinion on this, but you are totally changing the subject "statloss with the current karma system". Plus, you add statloss but you add a decaying murder counter ... this is not really a strict statloss addition. I think you are a bit outside the subject, no offense you have ideas that should be though.

    The original poster wants blues to be able to PvE/explore with no risks (saying: blues quit the game when they are PKed, what i disagree and replyed on my previous post). Instead of purposing the idea to have a new Trammel and then the "safe" is brought by location, he purposes to bring the safe by time.

    Let's be clear, if all reds have statloss during day or night or a period, do you really think PKs will roam and fights during that time ? Or they will roam in large group to balance the statloss penalty and we will have threads on forum "Remove the ability to be in group for PKs during day because they bus blues".

    Clearly, we will have blues that will farm during day with almost 0 risk except what i described over and we will have reds that will roam during night and see nobody and then will stop playing their red.

    Guys, i understand your problems, i don't say there is no problem at all with reds/blues or the karma system, i just say that adding a new penalty to reds with the current karma system won't solve anything and will hurt more. They are preparing a new penalty with the Outcast Naps on Trello, this is not even tested and released that you already want to add another penalty ...

    Let's see with the penalty of not being able to log out everywhere, maybe it will change some cases.

    But except if you totally remove wild PvP/PK, you will still have cases of a player who were PKed during day, by reds with 50% statloss. So what ? Adding again a new penalty to totally remove that risk ?

    They add a new penalty soon, let's test it and see if it REDUCES some abuse but if you expect something that removes the risk of being PKed because you think that's the reason why players leave:

    1) Your are wrong.

    2) Ask Citadel to create a full guarded area server US and EU with no PvP except consensual.

    (Sorry for my bad english not my native language)
  • So, in summary, we all think the current system is unfit for purpose.
  • CerynCeryn Japan
    edited July 11
    OG Brum said:

    So, in summary, we all think the current system is unfit for purpose.

    Yeah basically.
    Syhl said:

    What you are describing is a complete karma system rebuild, that was not the subject.

    You are picking "statloss" word and include it in a massive karma system revamp. I don't say your system is good or not, but the original idea was to include statloss during daylight with the CURRENT system that is a heavy penalty.

    Your point is noted as I said I don't necessarily disagree with all of your comments. The more general statement that I was making was that a "statloss" penalty is needed in some cases. I also disagree with a system that just has a "day / night" system since it doesn't really solve the core issue that reds can kill with no consequences. It just applies a bandage fix and means that both groups of players will be unable to play 50% of the time.

    A much better system would be a karma revamp that includes some form of statloss or prison since the current system doesn't make much sense. A well crafted karma system makes the game much more fun and was one of the strong points of UO (hence a large part of why people want Aria to succeed). Being red should be discouraged but not totally eliminated. As long as there are enough disincentives to random killing there is nothing wrong with there being some non-consentual PvP so long as it eventually (when taken to excess) causes a penalty.
    Syhl said:


    (Sorry for my bad english not my native language)

    No worries. You got your point across.

  • There's a reason my miner is stuck well below GM Miner. I refuse to go into a mine in the wilderness, mine my ore and then get killed by a PK who's honestly too lazy to mine for himself. I've been killed, watched them loot my ore and money, then rez me while letting me keep my picks. I DESPISE non-consensual PvP because too many PvPers are little children (chronologically or mentally) that are in it to grief kill. I'm close to quitting because of it. I can't get the same leveling in a protected area because the higher level ores and trees aren't available. If I wanted PvP, there are plenty of FPS games to play.
  • SyhlSyhl France
    And if you want PvE only, you have plenty games that are much better than this one.
  • CerynCeryn Japan
    edited July 11
    Syhl said:

    And if you want PvE only, you have plenty games that are much better than this one.

    That's not an excuse for not fixing a lack of consequences for non-consentual PvP. A few posts ago you said you would quit if there were "too harsh" of penalties, It's the same as me telling you that you should quit because APEX legends offers full loot PvP with no consequences. You asked for proof that people quit because of being PKed, well here it is, a new player providing you with proof, what now?

    People want a persistent world where that allows for both PvP and PvE. If people didn't care at all about *living* in the Aria world the development wouldn't include things like a million ways to decorate your house, gardening, crafting, etc.

    It's not unreasonable for there to be consequences that force people to consider if it's "worth it" to rob / kill someone.
  • SyhlSyhl France
    edited July 12
    Relluc said:

    If I wanted PvP, there are plenty of FPS games to play.

    @Ceryn I was answering to that sentence from @Relluc

    And no i wasn't asking for proofs ppl quits because the got PKed, i just said a big majority of ppl quit the game before they got PKed one time due to another reasons not related to karma / PK etc...
  • CerynCeryn Japan
    edited July 13
    Syhl said:

    Relluc said:

    If I wanted PvP, there are plenty of FPS games to play.

    @Ceryn I was answering to that sentence from @Relluc

    And no i wasn't asking for proofs ppl quits because the got PKed, i just said a big majority of ppl quit the game before they got PKed one time due to another reasons not related to karma / PK etc...
    Your initial point still stands and I agree with it, it doesn't matter that you were saying it to @Relluc it's still a valid point. If people were just expecting a PvP only game from Aria they would just play an FPS instead.

    There needs to be a system in place that adds some sort of "risk vs reward" calculation to being red. We may agree that the day and night thing isn't that great of an idea, but I disagree with you that "decreasing the risk" of being non-consentually PKed will negatively impact the game. (As you said in your first post that you and people like you would quit)

    I do understand that you are saying that part of the problem is the *current* karma system and I agree. They need to fix both. The current "current karma system sucks" is not an argument why we shouldn't have restrictions on PKs because both things need to be changed.

    The vast majority of players were looking for a UO-like experience and requires that being red has at least some consequences for each kill. It also requires that players get to control how other players are dealt with (hence sandbox) right now we have neither since the karma system is too restrictive against blues killing players (even when they deserve it) and not restrictive enough against reds. The huge number of red players was a symptom of the problems with the karma system:

    1) Blues not having any way to commit "illegal" actions without long term consequences even when other players deserve it. (Which means they just have a red sister guild)
    2) Reds not having enough of a penalty when the indiscriminately kill.

    You are right we need to fix both and not one at a time.
  • SyhlSyhl France
    My opinion is:

    1) No more restrictions with current karma system unchanged

    OR

    2) Karma system rebuild that will bring probably more restrictions to reds but maybe some advantages, as you said a decaying murder count is for me an example of advantage for reds

    The problem is it's too late to rebuild the karma system as we need stability before Steam launch. So don't expect a karma system change in this pre-Steam launch period.

    Really, i think we should see how it goes with the no wilderness logout for reds penalty it really could improve blue life a lot.

    And then if it's still not enough, wait for a karma system rebuild and yes as you say i think the "grey" temporary status is missing for blue doing "illegal" things some times. And i don't see how they will implement stealing for example without this temporary grey status ...

    In my opinion, we are at the end of the current karma system if blues still complain about reds after the no wilderness log out for reds patch. After this patch, no more restrictions but a karma system rebuild if not enough.
  • NecroNecro Azure
    It's simple. Stat loss.
  • SyhlSyhl France
    Necro said:

    Copy UOs karma system. The end.

    Necro said:

    It's simple. Stat loss.

    Choose one. Or Both. Simple. End of transmission.
  • TeufelTeufel Aria
    edited July 13
    It does suck that if you’re blue, you cannot pk even once without a major punishment. Even after being the model citizen for months. I don’t like the whole switching of karma to do anything bad. If you have thousands of positive karma, you should be able to pk that one turd that keeps stealing your spawn without going red. I agree with a lot of the above.

    I should also say, I have no problem with the current system. I enjoy the thrill and hunting pks. When I get ambushed by multiple red stealthers waiting for me to be low on hp, Im not happy about it, but don’t really mind. I’ve even formed some good relationships with reds I come across and we can joke around about it.

    But 98% of players don’t think like that. They get PKd a few times by reds who have nothing to lose, quit, bash the game online and to friends and uninstall. That’s what I’d like to avoid by the time we go live on Steam.

    Some good ideas above.
  • SyhlSyhl France
    The problem is except if you remove PK, you will decrease chance for blues to be PKed but never remove it totally.

    So if those blues got PKed and leave the game let's say after few weeks, if you decrease chance for them to be PKed you will just delay the time or frequency they will got PKed and leave.

    I don't really think a blue that leave the game because being PKed every 2 days, will stay in the game because he is "just" PKed every weeks.

    Yes UO bla bla ... but maybe when UO was so loved and played a lot (years ago) we maybe didn't have the same player profiles we have nowadays.

    People always refer to UO, but they forget that UO famous times was years ago with another player profiles majority than today + UO made Trammel / Felucca.

    Sometimes i have the feeling, people has selective memory for UO and refer only to small parts of the whole UO karma system avoiding important things like: Why UO made Trammel / Felucca if the karma system was perfect and could be copied here on LoA without splitting PvE / PvP maps ?
  • edited July 14
    I actually like the idea of a day and night system. It would give a slight boost to safety during the day for miners and gatherers to do all of their activities.

    The stat-loss on and off thing is a bit too on the nose however. What if instead...

    Stat-loss was minimal if you died at night as a red, and a massive hit if you died during the day as a red. Lets write it in as reds are vampires or something else within lore.

    So if you want to be a bad ass and hunt people during the day by all means go and do it but know that if you mess up you are going to be punished for it.

    You could take it one step further and go all in on the reds are night creatures thing and give them some kind of perception power that helps them track other players (but only at night) they can see footstep trails that are less than 30 mins old. In turn reds have to keep hunting players or else they lose these powers and revert back to human.

    Then you would have to add in a counter balance so bounty hunting, etc... unfortunately we're back to the problem of - this is just too much to develop and you might as well just revert to the UO karma system which was fully implemented in earlier betas but they decided to remove for 'reasons'.
  • MofakaMofaka United States
    The most fun I've had in the game happened the other night.

    I was on discord with a friend, we are both carebears.
    We were enjoying farming in a dungeon together, we had pack horses full of loot and were really abusing the low population right now.
    But this wasn't the fun part.

    I had parked a stealther on my second screen/account, and watched someone running into the dungeon.
    Immediately I had that sense of panic.
    I told my friend to recall, and we made it out.

    That moment of panic, and the realization that we got away.
    That was the fun part.

    The problem is, this is not really possible with a single account.
    There is no escaping a dungeon, there is no escaping combat once its been met.
    These were even characters capable of defending themselves, but what's a miner to do?
    He can die in his cave.

    The world is empty right now, but remember when places were full?
    People cant even tame, cause everything is tamed?
    You are getting pissed off at the other miners, cause there are not enough nodes?
    Standing around waiting for spiders? Clear cut forest?
    There was an outlet for that, and it was available to everyone in UO.
    It was also a driving reason to respect other players and give them some space, or work together.

    PVP resolves these conflicts, so its a good thing to have in this game.
    It makes these experiences more rich, it provides risk.
    There should be some punishment, a PK shouldn't be able to just slaughter 20 people in a day and have no consequences, but they should not be so bad that they dont PVP.


    I also disagree with the statement that Reds just want a challenge.
    They want easy money or to grief. If they want a challenge they will join a faction.
    Like I said though, a bit of Grief or pointless killing is fine. It provides risk to the other players.
    But they should have options as far as where to go for resources, where to hunt.

    Some of these zones are a good size, but all the players are in 2 spots, cause literally there's nothing else there. All of blackforest, and the only things worth killing are at the spider nest or Barkas.
    Why not let obsidian spawn in any wilderness zone, and make it kinda random just like mines are (node is sometimes obsidian, sometimes gold/copper).
    What are we going to do when there's actually a population, and everyone is stuck at the same 5 spots and Someone said... Dev's need to know its no fun being a sheep for the slaughter.
    I think it can be fun, if you get away once in a while.
    So I would say, its no fun being a sheep, staked to the ground, staring at a pack of lions.
    This is the game, from a PVE perspective most of the time.
  • heavenheaven brazil
    Mofaka said:

    The most fun I've had in the game happened the other night.

    What are we going to do when there's actually a population, and everyone is stuck at the same 5 spots and Someone said... Dev's need to know its no fun being a sheep for the slaughter.
    I think it can be fun, if you get away once in a while.
    So I would say, its no fun being a sheep, staked to the ground, staring at a pack of lions.
    This is the game, from a PVE perspective most of the time.

    That allready happened, and most people quit the game. And until today the dev dindt creat any new content, that is such a joke on the clients.
  • SyhlSyhl France
    Mofaka said:


    I also disagree with the statement that Reds just want a challenge.
    They want easy money or to grief. If they want a challenge they will join a faction.

    I was reading carefully this post untill this. Then i stopped and regretted the time i spent reading carefully before that sentence :lol: :lol: :lol:
  • CerynCeryn Japan
    edited July 18
    Syhl said:

    Mofaka said:


    I also disagree with the statement that Reds just want a challenge.
    They want easy money or to grief. If they want a challenge they will join a faction.

    I was reading carefully this post untill this. Then i stopped and regretted the time i spent reading carefully before that sentence :lol: :lol: :lol:
    Why? That statement isn't wrong. Factions are the greater skill requirement.

    As a red most of the time you have "control" of the situation. You go with however many people you think you need to win. You don't fight if you can't win. Basically it means you have the following advantages:

    1) Numbers advantage. Blues aren't farming most spawns in groups of 3-5 they are farming solo because otherwise you are there for so long that you will almost certainly die. It isn't any "safer" to farm as a group since it means you will just be there 3-5 times as long and reds will scout it with a blue character and bring greater numbers. If they don't have the numbers they just won't come at all.

    2) Skillpoint advantage. Most red characters are "complete" characters. They have finished skill building and purchased the ability tomes they need. There are many cases where a red player is fighting a player with 80 weapon skill.

    3) PvE v PvP: The blue player usually is engaged in a PvE fight meaning they have to deal with a monster on them while they are trying to fight off the reds. Blues are usually farming in a room which will respawn. Reds are attacking from a hallway which won't usually respawn for 30 minutes.

    There are a ton of disadvantages to being blue in fights. I believe I listed just some of them but there are plenty of others.

    Factions by contrast have no "advantages" for either side. It is also "hard mode" because there are the following things in addition to being freely attacked.

    1) No town guards *anywhere* since players can engage in town.

    2) Both sides are readily consenting to a fight. As a consequence they are complete characters and usually carry kits designed for PvP. This doesn't exist in the red scenario and sometimes it's Red player vs a character with no combat skills at all.

    3) No cross-healing from blue or orange allies who aren't involved in the fight.

    Every time I read one of your posts it looks more and more like you don't care about game balance and just want to protect the current FFA style that reds have. Well that ship has already sailed friend. People voted with their feet and no one is playing the game with the "current" ruleset.

  • SyhlSyhl France
    I don't know if you guy are PvPers or just speak about what you think PvP is, but you can't say: "reds are only to grief or easy money"

    I can't add or try to explain anything if you think that sentence is true / senseful, i will loose my time, can't discuss or give cases it's useless.

    About faction and challenge, i admit i can't speak about that because i didn't practiced it yet, saw many fights, saw many vidz, heard many who joined it ... and i didn't hear about "wow it's a big challenge" or "that's incredible ! this is so hard mode!"

    What i heard about factions is:

    - Pokemon wars due to tamers fights mainly
    - Cast Meteor and drop it randomly in the pack
    - More you are, more you win (not a faction only concept, i agree)

    That is not my "challenge" definition, i don't say being red is, but it's closer my "challenge" definition roaming solo as a red and yes encounter solo blues, but encounter dungeon groups or duo and it's more my challenge definition, fighting at least balanced 1v1 or most of time outnumbered.

    From what i see / heard from faction it's not attractive for a solo player like me, but again i didn't practiced it so i can't really give my opinion about that. I think it's more a group / guild PvP challenge than an individual challenge.

    ------
    At the end, to read such comments about PvP / reds and PK that are so far from reality, probably due to the fact that they are written by "victims" of those reds and not "actors" as reds themselves, our point of views are too far for me to continue writting here trying to explain the "other side".

    When you state that reds are only to grief and make easy money, and compare individual PvP vs group / bus PvP .. i think it's enough for me and will stop replying to this post + we are outside the main subject from Teufel about Vampire Red Penalty :lol:

    But thank you for all that time reading this discussion.
  • CerynCeryn Japan
    Syhl said:


    - Pokemon wars due to tamers fights mainly
    - Cast Meteor and drop it randomly in the pack
    - More you are, more you win (not a faction only concept, i agree)

    These issues above were always problems and they still are. So much so that meteor has been nerfed to block it from working when there is terrain that blocks line of sight, etc.

    You obviously didn't play from the start of early access when servers actually had population. Being red was never about a 1v1 fair fight since when there were numbers everyone was in groups even as reds.

    The fact that the above things are broken doesn't make 1v1 red vs blue any more skillful than factions. Specifically, you didn't even bother to answer the reasons why there is an inherent advantage in being the aggressor in non-consentual pvp.

    Anyway as you said it has nothing to do with this topic directly but it doesn't detract from the fact that penalties need to be put in or the karma system needs a rework. It seems that CS thinks so as well. If that causes you to leave than I'm sure you will be missed.
  • During full moons they should turn into a werewolf.
  • SyhlSyhl France
    Ceryn said:


    You obviously didn't play from the start of early access when servers actually had population. Being red was never about a 1v1 fair fight since when there were numbers everyone was in groups even as reds.

    You're right i didn't play since the start of early access ... i never stopped playing since the end of Shards Online so much before than early access :lol:

    And played when there was pop still as solo red or duo max that's probably why i speak about challenge. Challenge is something individual, if you choose to roam as a solo PK when there are many groups = Challenge, when you choose to play as bus = not Challenge... same for factions: You choose to play in the most populated faction = not Challenge, if you join the less populated faction = challenge. Challenge is a concept you choose or not, the easy mode or the hard mode. You want to control the challenge by features or something coded in the game that's is a really mistake in my opinion because you can't code challenge: it's a way of thinking, a personal choice.
  • Factions is just a blue gank fest. Bad PvPers only bring their wyverns. Rename factions to tamer battles lol. Factions is just a numbers game as well, imagine that for those who think it was a red only issue...

    Ceryn and Death didn't even play fractions but I'm sure they will give their "expertise" on the matter.
  • CerynCeryn Japan
    Ceryn and Death didn't even play factions but I'm sure they will give their "expertise" on the matter.
    I haven’t really played at all since the population became so low that you can play for hours without seeing anyone. As a consequence I don’t really have an opinion on the changes to factions and if they are good or bad. I do have an opinion on if “consensual” PvP (factions/GW) or non-consensual PvP (PKing) takes more skill.

    You are not going to convince anyone that fighting vs a player who doesn’t want to fight somehow takes “more skill” than someone who is both prepared and wants to fight.
    Grex said:

    Factions is just a blue gank fest. Bad PvPers only bring their wyverns. Rename factions to tamer battles lol. Factions is just a numbers game as well, imagine that for those who think it was a red only issue.

    It isn’t a problem with unique to factions it’s a problem with Aria/UO in general. The only people still playing Aria at this point are veterans and veterans have access to a tamers.

    No effort has been made to balance group fights. Aria needs Paralyze like UO so you can disable the dragon for 30-60 seconds for 40 mana by precasting paralyze and the using cloak on the dragon so they can’t hit it to remove your paralyze.

    Once again your argument against restricting red play is based on totally unrelated balance issues that the game has. These issues all got worked out about 20 years ago when they resolved them in UO. Aria will also need to do some balancing if everything were fine people would still be playing and the game would have already released to steam.

    The next update is supposed to be the steam release so I guess we will find out if the game is ready or not.
  • SyhlSyhl France
    All opposite arguments are bad but you don't give more arguments than "1 red roaming has no challenge versus a group of blue that don't want to fight" but maybe if they see 1 red and are 5 blues during PvE they will probably ... fight ? or chase the red ?

    1 player roaming has more chance to fight at least 1v1 but more chances to fight outnumbered 1v2 or 1v3 = Mathematics

    We gave many different arguments but all your theory is only based on "one player that want to fight will have NO challenge because others don't want" that is totally a mistake that represents you have no idea of what you speak about.

    Take a red char, meet 4 or 5 ppl group in a dungeon and you will see if they won't fight and after you can come here and say there is no challenge. I often see pure PvE player defending versus a red when they are more.

    You have no idea of factions (like me, i admitted i didn't test it so i can't speak a lot about that) and no idea of what to play a solo red char roaming is, but you speak as an expert with only one argument that is totally unreal and based on nothing.

    It seems you got PKed few times, bad reacted due to that and that's why you come here asking more penalties for PKs but that doesn't turn you as an expert.

    Play factions, play PK, play PvP, practice, try, test the "other" side then you can come back here and ask for things like paralyze (that shows you have no idea of what a game balancing is), massive revamps, more karma penalties and such crazy things that could make things even worse for the game just because you switch from personnal experience to global experience.

    I PKed a lot, i got PKed a lot, lost tons of gold value farm, got PKed in dungeon, on my miners without any way to defend, i can speak about that because i know both sides and i don't ask to have more red advantages. I just say, let's wait next planned penalties like Outcast naps on Trello before asking for more.

    You ask for more penalties but knowing only one side and in a very subjective way. What you ask is for you personnaly but not for the game.
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