Feedback: On why we quit (new tax system)

GlumpfnerGlumpfner Ireland
edited May 2 in General Discussion
Hello,

This is intended as a constructive feedback for the devs, so they can see how frustrating it can be for players.

We're 5 friends who played Ultima Online since 1999. We're all in our mid 30s to early 40s. Most of us are married with kids and full time job. We already felt that the game was extremely time consuming in regards to leveling. For a person with a full time job, it's close to impossible to level up skills in combat within a decent amount of time before losing interest. I guess that's why everyone uses macros.

In total we have 8 accounts (8 plots), 5 plots right next to each other just outside Eldeir, main road and 3 plots just outside Helm main street, also all next to each other.
Due to the low amount of players, non of our shops were making profits anymore and it no longer covered our taxes. Since March we've been running losses each week due to the high taxes.

We decided to resize our plots down to a smaller size, to save on taxes until the game is released on Steam and the game gets new players again. We calculated that even though the original resize cost were up to 20g, it's still cheaper if we keep it small for 4 weeks or longer (whenever it goes on Steam is our rule of thumb).

Some of us had 28x30, 25x25, 30x25, 20x30. Pretty much most plots were above 20x20. Most of us resized down to 15x15, some even took the house down, as we couldn't afford the taxes.

Then, just 1 single week after we made those changes, we're reading about the new tax system. While it's great to hear that we could now afford all our taxes on our previous sized plots, the resize cost to bring them back to our initial size, are ASTRONOMICAL. We calculated. For all 8 plots to resize them again as it was before, it would cost us close to 1200 gold! 12 platinum! Crazy! We resized our plots because we couldn't afford 5 gold per week, and now we have to pay 1200 gold to bring them back to the original state.

So yeah, that was yet another punch in the face. Over the past few months I've already opened a few threads on how some of us lost up to 50 gold due to bugs in the game (see my other threads). Those were 100% reproducible bugs which we then reported, yet Citadel Studios said they do not reimburse lost items, even when it's due to bugs. That was already a borderline issue for us to quit. But now with this tax system, and zero way for us to get it back to the original size without spending 1200 gold, it's a punch to the face that K.Os us.

We understand that announcing this beforehand would have lead people to just resize and place plots all over the world to take advantage of it. However in cases like ours, where we downsize our plots from 30x30 to 15x15 to save on taxes, and then are met with the new system just a week later, where we need to pay 300 gold for a 30x30 ... ouch!
Just like with the "Claim tax back" option that took into consideration the effect this new system has, there should have been an option for players who recently downsized their plots, to have them upsize them to the previous size, for the same price as before.

We have lost interest in spending so much time in trying to earn gold, just to have it made useless by bugs or game play mechanic decisions. Before when we lost around 50 gold, it was incredibly frustrating, but this time, knowing we have to pay 1200 gold to get it up-sized again to what we had... no thank you. The amount of hours we would need to spend to earn 1200 gold, is not something we can achieve as people with full time jobs and families. This pushed us over the edge to quit the game.

Thanks for reading.

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Comments

  • My plot also just right outside of Eldier too. I downsize to 12x12 the day before the patch because I was prepping to take a long break from the game. I was trying to maximize my bank balance since I didn't want to keep logging on to farm silver to pay weekly tax.
    The game is dying if not dead. CS doesn't know how to attract new players or keep existing.
  • edited May 2
    The CS is getting way too many quality feedbacks and admirably relevant opinions these days.
  • Agree, have plot because of taxes and now i can not afford a resize.

    I lost interest with sending mounts to the stables, instead of back in bags. Then my last account, i only got one etheral mount for logging in every day last weekend.

    The decisions and bugs, have caused my interests in the game to go way down.
  • DemonicDisasterDemonicDisaster United States
    Guess you should have waited a little longer to resize...
  • 1coldone said:

    Agree, have plot because of taxes and now i can not afford a resize.

    I lost interest with sending mounts to the stables, instead of back in bags. Then my last account, i only got one etheral mount for logging in every day last weekend.

    The decisions and bugs, have caused my interests in the game to go way down.

    yeah it was buggy. I got only 1. But I didn't care I have over 1k of horse statue. I just leave it at whatever spot I am at. It is die I summon new one.
  • Grimfall said:

    1coldone said:

    Agree, have plot because of taxes and now i can not afford a resize.

    I lost interest with sending mounts to the stables, instead of back in bags. Then my last account, i only got one etheral mount for logging in every day last weekend.

    The decisions and bugs, have caused my interests in the game to go way down.

    yeah it was buggy. I got only 1. But I didn't care I have over 1k of horse statue. I just leave it at whatever spot I am at. It is die I summon new one.
    Yea, got enough taming and 2 accounts to just carry more...then i think...we really need to do this?

    It is now, just a place holder until something else fun comes out. Have not logged in since sunday.
  • SanakSanak United States
    The housing changes are outrageous. Agree with the concept. More up front cost, less upkeep cost. But holy crap, they made expanding your plot completely out of most of the player bases grasp.

    Now we are left with a game that not only prices newer/more casual players out of developing their characters (see ability books rediculousness) but now also housing. These guys are seriously just flailing in the wind at this point.

    MONTHS after "early access" (see alpha) release they change such a fundamental part of the game. This stuff should have been ironed out well before last wipe. At most needing some tweaking as they see how things work.
  • No house, no problem
  • KingslyKingsly Blue Boar
    5 friends 8 accounts and 8 plots... Well it's going to cost more when you own more so downsize then.
  • Sanak said:

    The housing changes are outrageous. Agree with the concept. More up front cost, less upkeep cost. But holy crap, they made expanding your plot completely out of most of the player bases grasp.

    Now we are left with a game that not only prices newer/more casual players out of developing their characters (see ability books rediculousness) but now also housing. These guys are seriously just flailing in the wind at this point.

    MONTHS after "early access" (see alpha) release they change such a fundamental part of the game. This stuff should have been ironed out well before last wipe. At most needing some tweaking as they see how things work.

    +1
  • Housing was fine the way it was, well for the most part. The ultra high taxes and quick auction system was a perfect way to weed out inactive peeps while insuring good plots didn't get left stagnant and hog up the world.

    Again, I ask....who the freak are you getting your feedback from? Now all the existing plots can literately litter the world for years by simply logging in and dropping pennies to keep them active. This is what you want?!? I want a MMO that has active players...not someone who farms 15 mins a week for enough to keep their plot active.

    The whole system that was just implemented is ass backwards...Why? And I'll give you a little piece of advice...Weekly taxes should always include the raw materials used to built the house (ie wood, brick, iron) as upkeep. This is the way you insure the common resources always have value...and newbies can harvest items as a viable source of income from day 1, while maintaining a healthy in game economy.

    Please whoever if feeding you info about this game, stop listing to them...they are destroying your game.
  • Housing was fine the way it was, well for the most part. The ultra high taxes and quick auction system was a perfect way to weed out inactive peeps while insuring good plots didn't get left stagnant and hog up the world.

    Again, I ask....who the freak are you getting your feedback from? Now all the existing plots can literately litter the world for years by simply logging in and dropping pennies to keep them active. This is what you want?!? I want a MMO that has active players...not someone who farms 15 mins a week for enough to keep their plot active.

    The whole system that was just implemented is ass backwards...Why? And I'll give you a little piece of advice...Weekly taxes should always include the raw materials used to built the house (ie wood, brick, iron) as upkeep. This is the way you insure the common resources always have value...and newbies can harvest items as a viable source of income from day 1, while maintaining a healthy in game economy.

    Please whoever if feeding you info about this game, stop listing to them...they are destroying your game.

    Isn't obvious who is giving the "feedback"? Who do these changes benefit the the most. Not just housing changes, who had GMed alchemy, who got prime cheap plots and now cheap upkeep, who controls chokepoints? That is who they are listening too. With no regard for new that come in.
  • TeufelTeufel Aria
    I like the idea of needing to add new resources every once in a while for upkeep. Makes sense.
  • edited May 3
    1coldone said:

    Housing was fine the way it was, well for the most part. The ultra high taxes and quick auction system was a perfect way to weed out inactive peeps while insuring good plots didn't get left stagnant and hog up the world.

    Again, I ask....who the freak are you getting your feedback from? Now all the existing plots can literately litter the world for years by simply logging in and dropping pennies to keep them active. This is what you want?!? I want a MMO that has active players...not someone who farms 15 mins a week for enough to keep their plot active.

    The whole system that was just implemented is ass backwards...Why? And I'll give you a little piece of advice...Weekly taxes should always include the raw materials used to built the house (ie wood, brick, iron) as upkeep. This is the way you insure the common resources always have value...and newbies can harvest items as a viable source of income from day 1, while maintaining a healthy in game economy.

    Please whoever if feeding you info about this game, stop listing to them...they are destroying your game.

    Isn't obvious who is giving the "feedback"? Who do these changes benefit the the most. Not just housing changes, who had GMed alchemy, who got prime cheap plots and now cheap upkeep, who controls chokepoints? That is who they are listening too. With no regard for new that come in.
    .
    .
    .
    those players that been here since the start and have multiple accounts, multiple toons with 6x GMed everything including crafting, own the vendor houses closest to town, spend all day collecting resources and PvP/PKed at night. Look around the bank day/night no matter what time and you wills see the same guild tag.
  • Teufel said:

    I like the idea of needing to add new resources every once in a while for upkeep. Makes sense.

    if done like I would not mind but same time I dont want to spend my time collecting resources myself because vendors are selling it at crazy price.
  • Grimfall said:

    1coldone said:

    Housing was fine the way it was, well for the most part. The ultra high taxes and quick auction system was a perfect way to weed out inactive peeps while insuring good plots didn't get left stagnant and hog up the world.

    Again, I ask....who the freak are you getting your feedback from? Now all the existing plots can literately litter the world for years by simply logging in and dropping pennies to keep them active. This is what you want?!? I want a MMO that has active players...not someone who farms 15 mins a week for enough to keep their plot active.

    The whole system that was just implemented is ass backwards...Why? And I'll give you a little piece of advice...Weekly taxes should always include the raw materials used to built the house (ie wood, brick, iron) as upkeep. This is the way you insure the common resources always have value...and newbies can harvest items as a viable source of income from day 1, while maintaining a healthy in game economy.

    Please whoever if feeding you info about this game, stop listing to them...they are destroying your game.

    Isn't obvious who is giving the "feedback"? Who do these changes benefit the the most. Not just housing changes, who had GMed alchemy, who got prime cheap plots and now cheap upkeep, who controls chokepoints? That is who they are listening too. With no regard for new that come in.
    .
    .
    .
    those players that been here since the start and have multiple accounts, multiple toons with 6x GMed everything including crafting, own the vendor houses closest to tow, spend all day collecting resources and PvP/PKed at night. Look around the bank day/night no matter what time and you wills see the guild tag.
    Precisely, CS should keep that in mind on this feedback. That is, if they want to keep and meaningful population of new players that come. That feedback coming from the prospective of no more wipes and probably not even a fresh server.
  • DireDire Canada, UO Napa Valley pre Tram, UO SP
    LOL i basically did the same thing with my houses, I resized them to save on taxes, basically wasting tons of gold on it, then I just spent like 15gold on my vendor house resizing it again cause of how cheap taxes are now lol god, i hope they just keep 1 way or another....
  • Unless they had huge gold increases all over - they screwed up
  • Game Status: EARLY ACCESS
    Calm down Everyone! Go grind out some gold! Dont take a break, or take a break.. nothing is "official" yet.. Im 33, 2 kids. 65+ hours a week of work and 7 days a week literally. On call on my time off. I get 45 min here, 2 hours here, and sometimes 3 days without playing.
    So what? You need to go out and make some money to resize. big woop! Play and gain gold and pay or just lose it. Just play!
  • edited May 8
    Early access is nottypically is whole sale changes that's beta....this should clean up and tweaks
  • I know man @ DrDoo - I just, dude, there is a billion games - so much stuff to do.

    All I want is old school UO - that is why im here. Legends of Ultima has wolf mounts - I saw it, they have way better art and armor - they look awesome. I am amazed at the level of effort put in there.... still - i want official damn servers - i want devs to love it like I do - why is the changes so un-productive ?

    Remember how UO had everything a certain way, then it spiraled to shit - but as we cant go back in time, we now see all of the changes, and can cherry pick them to implement...

    There should be mounted combat, affordable housing - and FUN STUFF TO DO - the skill books are kinda jank, the stupid UI and client problems should have all been resolved before these petty rules
  • nextlevelplaynextlevelplay Canada
    edited May 8
    Project Lead, Legends of Aria 17 hours ago.

    In hindsight the tax changes should have never went on experimental. We'll do our best not to let things go to experimental that aren't on the patch notes in the future.


    Awesome guys another patch well done, thanks for screwing over all the players that didnt go build houses on the experimental because they were testing the death system and changes to combat.

    We had ZERO idea about the tax system.

    But Hey, you learnt from your mistakes so its ok I guess?
  • Project Lead, Legends of Aria 17 hours ago.

    In hindsight the tax changes should have never went on experimental. We'll do our best not to let things go to experimental that aren't on the patch notes in the future.


    Awesome guys another patch well done, thanks for screwing over all the players that didnt go build houses on the experimental because they were testing the death system and changes to combat.

    We had ZERO idea about the tax system.

    But Hey, you learnt from your mistakes so its ok I guess?

    But no, how can we make this right?, though.

    Got to wonder why people would have even thought to make houses on an experimental server, that was to test death and mounts...to start with....
  • DiamonasDiamonas Canada
    Also accounts are 1 house per account total...like hell I'm losing my Helm spot near the gate on Azure Sky to test there BS imposed tax changes that were never listed.
  • Squid said:

    Housing change was the right move; land/building costs were always far too low for housing to be the stretch goal it should be.

    Right move wrong time. This change should of been made years ago based on previous feedback before EA no wipes.
  • Divinorum said:

    Squid said:

    Housing change was the right move; land/building costs were always far too low for housing to be the stretch goal it should be.

    Right move wrong time. This change should of been made years ago based on previous feedback before EA no wipes.
    +1 exactly...should have been in beta phase.
  • Or, EVERYONE should have been given a weeks notice, on changes that game changing.
  • edited May 11
    Squid said:

    Divinorum said:

    Squid said:

    Housing change was the right move; land/building costs were always far too low for housing to be the stretch goal it should be.

    Right move wrong time. This change should of been made years ago based on previous feedback before EA no wipes.
    Yep. I started playing at EA launch and that was one of my first bits of feedback: "What are my goals (as a PVEr) supposed to be if I already the biggest house on the biggest plot in less than two weeks?"
    The brightside is, new players probably will not be able to do that in 2 weeks, anymore. Especially, with the changes, chokepoints that are controlled by players with those over powered ability books, they got to farm off pf low level mobs.


    But, once they release frozen tundra, with all the gold they racked up and now the GM alchemist new found gold mine, they can get rid of their current houses and relocate to those chokepoints.

    Or maybe, we get the fresh server and the instant, new toon with new skills to raise up. While keeping their easy mode orginal toons on current servers. Something new and fresh to do, level under the newer, harsher rules they advocated for...after they were promised no more wipes.
  • I was one of the players that downsized because taxes were too high. I even relocated, so I lost my Tavern. I was cutting back my game time to spend some more time with my grandson. I was still playing, but it was a lot easier to maintain the taxes. Now, I lost that big house and am stuck with a small house. The smallest of them all.

    It sucks. It's SO EXPENSIVE to expand.

    Oh well ... it is what it is, but if a new player joins, this 1200 gold requirement for a big plot and large house is going to turn people off when they realize that mobs just don't drop a lot of money in this game. Even end-game beasts drop very little from a money standpoint.

    I guess I'll just keep playing, but this whole thing has left a bad taste. That's for sure.
  • I think this video sums up the developer of this game.
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