Idea for new dismount system. Make the riders mount take damage too

The current official dismount system is very weak and needs a complete overhaul. Mounted melee players are at a strong disadvantage vs mounted ranged casters because of the way regular damage can cause a dismount to happen.

To fix this, dismounts should only occur when a dismounting weapon special move is used. However, with new weapon special moves that deal damage to both the mount and to the rider, its possible to kill the horse while an enemy is mounted.

If the horse dies, the rider falls and is dismount-stunned for 1 second with no stun immunity after it wears off

Since weapon special moves use stamina, adding horse-damaging weapon special moves with charging maneuvers(similar to the charge ability skill book) would simulate sprinting towards an enemy. Players on foot "in charging range" of mounted players would be locked into combat. 

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Ideas for a few new special moves.

Some 2 handed weapons could have: (Change voulge to this too)

Charging Dismount- Charge at a mounted opponent and dismount. Deals damage to the rider plus heavy damage to the horse. Cost 25 stamina

Some 1 handed weapons could have:

Anti Calvary Charge- Charge at a mounted opponent and deal damage to the rider plus damage to their horse.  Also snares the horse for 3 seconds. The rider can choose to hop off their horse to remove snare. Cost 20 stamina

Long bows could have:

Anti Calvary Barrage- Fire shots at a mounted opponent that deals damage to the rider plus damage to their horse Also immobilizes the horse for 2 seconds. The rider can choose to hop off their horse to move again. Cost 20 stamina

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Escaping for mounted riders

To escape combat there needs to be more abilities like Dart that can be used on foot or mounted. This would force players that use ranged attack-and-run tactics to have to use ability book slots to escape.

Ideas for a few new escape abilities

Retreat- requires vigor 60. Can be used while mounted or on foot. Removes snares and grants snare immunity for 10 seconds. 1 minute cooldown

Cavalier- requires light or heavy armor 60 and vigor 60. Grants dismount and horse snare/immobilize immunity for 8 seconds and heals horse while mounted. 1 minute cooldown

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The test server mounted combat removal

The complete removal of mounted combat may help balance some aspects of PvP, but leaves much to be desired. Bland.

If these new charging, horse-damaging weapon special moves were implemented, it would balance mounted combat and make horses more like a small speed buff that only assists the rider for a short time in combat.

Don't remove a great fantasy game genre immersion detail. It would be thrilling for players on foot to be able to "leg-swipe" enemies mounts like they do in the movies. To see battlefields covered with dead horses.

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 Instead of forcing players to auto-dismount when engaging in combat, give players on foot options to engage mounted players.

Make it easier to dismount players that haven't applied skill books to assist them in mounted combat.

Comments

  • edited March 28
    Because skill books are so hard to aquire early on, new characters should have a choice of a skill book at character creation.

    Character creation skill books ideas

    Flee- requires being blue. Can be used while mounted or on foot. Must be blue and must not be an aggressor in PvP. Grants 30% speed boost on foot or 10% speed boost while mounted. Also removes snares and grants snare/dismount immunity for 10 seconds. Flee ability is cancelled if the player attacks, heals or uses any skill or ability. Has a 5 minute cooldown

    Quick Mount- Requires 30 animal taming. Can mount their horse instantly- 1 minute cooldown

    Horse Whistle- requires 30 animal taming. Call a stabled horse to the players location. After 10 seconds the horse appears nearby- 2 minute cooldown

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    Ethereal Horses should be a semi-rare item players can use to instantly mount an ethereal steed that only lasts for 1 minute, then disappears. 10 minute cooldown
  • If they have to make 16+ changes to save something vs simply remove it... I'd say removing it is the better choice.

    Lumping more and more structure onto something doesn't make it better.

  • OuijaOuija Canada
    yah just not being dismounted unless its a skill use would be the easiest solution.
  • edited March 28
    You have mentioned before a 50% health threshold for dismount. I think that would be a good start for a fast fix.

    This idea would be a more immersive system for the future. Instead of a 50% health threshold to dismount, the horse itself would be the threshold. It would make mounts more of a simple speed buff that could easily be removed.(killed)
    I think it would be a lot of fun to charge at people and chop their horses up!
  • OuijaOuija Canada
    im only trying to address the issue of ranged vs melee. a piercer dismounted is at a much greater disadvantage than a mage However if both STAY mounted that disadvantage never comes to light.
  • Adding charging weapon special moves that use stamina would really help melee vs range
  • edited March 28
    In theory do you think this style of mounted combat vs unmounted would be more balanced? Would giving players on foot opportunities to charge into range and dismount opponents help offset the ranged attack-and-run overpowering tactics?

    Would using a horses health as the threshold for when mounted players get dismounted work?

    I understand some people don't care for immersion in their fantasy game genre PvP, but obviously a lot of players do.

    Its like, what if in the Lord of the Rings, when the Riders of Rohan charged in to save Helm's Deep all just dismounted before the fight. It would be rediculous! Why would any warriors charging into battle on horse do such a thing without a tactical reason.

    So the goal should be balancing, making tactical reasons to dismount in combat and maintaining an immersive setting to play in.







  • If you are arguing for mounted combat then why focus your efforts on designing systems for dismounting players?
  • edited March 29
    I want immersive, brutal dismount capabilities. Like this...its so beautiful.

    There shouldn't be any other advantages to being mounted other than it being a good speed buff. Most PvP players will start fights off on mount because of this. It gives some freedom in the world to either engage or run away from battle situations. However being mounted should not be the dominate form of PvP. Players should all be able to be dismounted fairly easily and lose their speed buff.

    If two teams of equally skilled players fight each other, one team on mounts the other on foot, there shouldn't be any advantage for the mounted team other then they can run away if they stay out of range.

    When the mounted team enters spell range to engage, the team on foot should be in range for using charging weapon special move abilities.

    When mounted players take any direct damage, the horse should take some damage too. The only way to heal the mount is to dismount and heal the horse. Without a way to stay mounted and heal horses the mounted team will quickly be dismounted and have to fight on foot.

    In battle, if players want to keep their horse buff active slightly longer, or escape dismount situations, they should have to use skill books. This would limit attack-and-run tactics to skill book cooldown timers.

    I do think most fights should result in players being dismounted to keep them locked in combat with each other. PvP should be done in a way that resembles brutal medieval battles, not just hopping off the horses before the fight for no reason.
  • Just remove mounted combat so we can kill eachother faster pls
  • edited March 28
    rgarrett said:

    Just remove mounted combat so we can kill eachother faster pls

    This thread isn't about the experimental downgraded no mount combat system. Thats over in the experimental section.

    This thread is about an idea that would balance mounted combatants vs unmounted combatants.
  • SoapSoap United States
    @-g0d
    Seems to be a lack of vision in this community. “It’s too hard to do” “Current system sucks just remove it”

    Quick fixes solve nothing.

    Reds can’t fast travel due to design.
    -new issue: Reds park chars in dungeons
    Reds (and only Reds for whatever asinine reason) “nap” and never log off leaving this capability only to Blue players who definitely WILL abuse it. This will also discourage being Red even further.

    Mounts offer advantages and disadvantages.
    -remove mounted combat
    -new issue: Players simply send scouts to get others to dismount, meanwhile the real hunting party comes in, closes the gaps with their mounts, and kills the Blues anyway.
    -new issue: No way to kill a guy trying to escape on a mount, frost bolt them, stun them, they can still run away and you’re left holding your d***.

    You’re gonna see Blues realize scouts and Red scouts will just stand there Mounted next to Blues hoping they dismount. Talk about weak ass gameplay.

    All this to offer consensual fights in the Wilderness, while consent is a GIVEN when you GO to the Wilderness.

    So now, PvP will only be an option in Dungeons, which are already flooded with Reds. I see way more negatives coming from all this.

  • edited March 29
    There does seem to be a lack of vision.

    Imagine if there were some charging weapon special moves that could only be used against mounted opponents by players on foot. This simple ability alone would completely change PvP by allowing players on foot to quickly close the distance between them and ranged mounted enemies. These type of attacks could also have various CC effects on the mounted target as well as deal damage to the rider and mount itself. Giving slower players the means to engage faster mounted players would be a big step in balancing, while still maintaining immersive gameplay.

    Elder Scrolls Online doesn't have mounted combat, but it does have a large variety of character builds, some with very high movement speed abilities. Gap closers in ESO such as "critical charge" works wonders helping slower builds engage faster opponents. This game could really benefit from some of the most basic fundamentals ESO gameplay offers in its PvP.




  • Higher agi used to make players faster, but they removed it
  • The standard maneuver for a foot soldier to face a mounted opponent Is to kill the horse.
    Melee attacks coming from a foot soldier against a mounted opponent, should hit the mount. If the mount Is killed, the rider takes damage and Is stunned.
  • edited April 1
    Ruggero said:

    The standard maneuver for a foot soldier to face a mounted opponent Is to kill the horse.
    Melee attacks coming from a foot soldier against a mounted opponent, should hit the mount. If the mount Is killed, the rider takes damage and Is stunned.

    This would be the way to handle the current annoying regular dismount that happens too often. All direct damage a rider takes should damage the mount as well. For example, in PvP if the rider gets hit with an energy bolt the rider still takes full damage, the mount takes like 10-20% of that damage.

    Still will need charging melee movement to ensure players on foot balance vs hit and run mounted opponents and melee special moves that can do more damage to the mount itself.
  • SoapSoap United States
    .
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